Re: Control charts in education?/Taurman

ILX

Thu, 12 Sep 1996 16:43:11 -0500 (CDT)

Comments for Carol Sager

My understandings re: variation in education are these: All students 
need to learn certain specific skills. Even in elective courses (ones 
that all students do not take) teachers have objectives that should be 
met by all students in the class. Students will learn skills at 
different times, at different rates, and in different ways. Students 
take electives in different areas. They choose different interests.

The differences in students is not the issue in measuring it the difference
in teaching methods that should be studied . of course for different kinds
of student groups. The purpose of inspection is to verify that the process
is working right not just to evaluate the student.

That is why we must look at average and spread of the results of various
teaching methods. On a continual basis.and compare each year one to past
performance. 

Some of this is going on but more on a macro baisi than for individual
schools and classes.

I am sure that teachers would be defensive about such measurse just like
factory workers. It is only when the system is sufficiently non political
that feedback can be effective at addressing the teaching processes.  

Methods(processes) of teaching will vary so that the goal of having all 
students learn what is considered necessary will be achieved. Education 
isn't about controlling variation among students. It is about developing 
the best processes for delivering the best possible information, 
programs, and services for enhancing and promoting the continuous 
improvement of student learning. YOU BET 
>
Eugene Taurman
interLinx
ilx@execpc.com
http://www.execpc.com/~ilx

=========================================================================

Introducing SPC/Vickerstaff

vickers@ozramp.net.au (John Vickerstaff)

Fri, 13 Sep 1996 19:30:29 +1000

>I read with interest the post from Tom Harris regarding the use of drive
>times as a method of making students aware of their use of SPC.  I have used
>this in the following way in a course I developed for a local company.

I have also used drive times in educating people re- SPC & control charts.
Ask a member of the audience how long it takes them to drive to work? When
they reply 30 mins, ask if that's an average time? (It usually is)  What
about on a good day or a bad day? Best time was 20 minutes & on a bad day
its 45. Ask the audience what makes the difference between 20 minutes & 45
minutes. They usually come up with a host of common causes & a few special
causes. Speed, traffic lights, heavy traffic, time I left the house,
accident, etc. Using your knowledge you can write up the lists in two
columns as you have a pretty good idea which are common causes & which are
special. You can then construct a rough control chart explaining how on any
given day any number of the common causes contribute to make you arrive
somewhere within the control limits. When a special cause is present, like
an accident, you could arrive much much later. The people seem to relate to
this pretty well. You can even explain how if you arrived home real late
(Due to a special cause) your wife / husband would probably start to go
looking for you. (Hence, we can usually identify reasons for special causes.)

Once people have the concept of a control chart, the next question is
usually, "What will stop management moving the control limits & making the
target harder?"

This takes a little longer to answer so be prepared. Even though your answer
may make logical sense the mistrust through previous management carrot /
stick excercises is not easily overcome. Suggestions welcome, but I think
only demonstrated actions over a period of time will satisfy the hard liners. 

John Vickerstaff. 

=======================================================================

Re: Variation in education/Levin

"Wayne J. Levin"

Fri, 13 Sep 96 07:30:40 -0400

>..., then how do educational outcomes differ 
>from outcomes in let's say, manufacturing automobiles, with respect 
>to variation and the control of same, as per Deming?
>
>Anybody know? Or hypothesize?

As complicated as manufacturing automobiles is, education is much more 
so. Manufacturing is essentially a relatively narrow set of activities 
that are repeated many times over (I'm looking at just the manufacturing 
end - the upstream end of designing an automobile is a whole other 
matter). The cars coming down the line don't vary much - or shouldn't.

But students that come through the educational system differ greatly. 
When making cars - we're trying to take the same stuff and turn it into 
essentially a series of the same things. When educating people, we've got 
complex entities in an emotional (and maturing) flux trying to figure out 
their aspirations. At the end of the process, they all differ - and they 
should. But one thing that there should be minimal variation in is in 
that each has established direction for their lives and identified what 
they'll need (including in themselves) to realize their aspirations.

Wayne J. Levin, M.A.Sc., P.Eng
Process Improvements, Inc.
PO Box 77506
North York, Ontario CANADA
M3H 6A7

====================================================================

Re: Quality is not dead!/Nimon

"harry nimon"

Fri, 13 Sep 96 8:01:35 CDT

It is not only the desparate, but the wise, who know when to change and 
when to hold steady. Here at Compaq we have a great success story.  However,
 our CEO is not satisfied with status quo.  He has adopted a vision of 
improvement and is aggressively championing it.  This is based, not on 
current need, but future vision.  Need, often, is the wake-up clarion.  But 
it is much more vital to be visionary.

########################################
Harry Nimon@Services@Ops Hou                      # 
Mail 130109; Phone: 518-6582: Pager: 763-0351# 
Internet: HNimon@netgate.compaq.com            #     
########################################

==========================================================================

Quality & stakeholders/Nimon

"harry nimon"

Fri, 13 Sep 96 8:13:18 CDT

Excellent....and accepted.
The definition of "Customer" is just that, from both a Deming and 
Goldratt-T.O.C. perspective.  My point was that under TOC, as I understand it 
and am open to correction, is that the true "Stakeholder" is the ultimate 
user who is willing to establish the value of the product being produced.  
I, as the next in line be it on the assembly line or the retail outlet, am 
a customer, but may not be the the "Stakeholder."  While I do have an 
extreme interest in receiving a "quality" product that I am able to pass 
along, and may in the process provide my supplier money, the final user of 
the product determines its value.  I may produce the finest widget in the 
realm, but if nobody buys them, of what value are they?  I was reading into 
Julie's comments an assumption that all "stakeholders [customers]" along 
the line establish the value of the final product, which is true to a 
degree (I guess, even though it weakens my arguement).  But the focus of 
all along that pathway should be on the final user.

To illustrate my thought process:

I produce a bolt used in the brake housing of the 1995 Carmobile.  I have 
received excellent feedback from my customer, the BrakeHaus Co., who 
supplies brake housings to TushEnds Corp, who in turn supplies rear end 
assemblies to Carmobile.  Carmobile sells to the public.  The public has 
learned that there is a problem with BrakeHaus assemblies requiring 
frequent repairs.  They do not buy many 1995 Carmobiles out of fear for 
their lives should the brakes fail.  It is my requirement to answer the 
issue by the "Stakeholder," the public.  They are the one's whose lives are 
on the line.  My "Customer," BrakeHaus, has provided me feedback that my 
bolt exceeds their specs and is the best on the market, yet I still fail.  
Granted, it is the responsibility of all to work together in this example, 
but not all do.  

I should focus my SPC not on the line or even on BrakeHaus, but on the 
public's expectations.


########################################
Harry Nimon@Services@Ops Hou                      # 
Mail 130109; Phone: 518-6582: Pager: 763-0351# 
Internet: HNimon@netgate.compaq.com            #     
########################################

============================================================================

Re: Control charts in education?/Tribus

"Myron. Tribus" <104055.2663@CompuServe.COM>

13 Sep 96 11:24:36 EDT

The posting by Bacal does not take TIME into consideration.   We should
recognize that children learn at different speeds and,  therefore,  some may
progress faster than others.  However,  we need to set a minimum competency that
all must meet.

Again,  it is useful to distinguish between features and quality.  A child may,
for a variety of reasons,  have learning abilities at some point in time which
enable that child to acquire a multitude of capabilities:  musical, literary,
in sports,  mathematical,  social.   Another child,  with a different background
may not be so ready and may have to acquire fewer--ie.,  have fewere features in
his or her education.   But with respect to each feature acquired,  there should
be an attempt to reduce the spread...not by limiting the ones who have developed
their learning abilities already to a small number of features...but by being
sure that with respect to any one feature,  each student has achieved the
standards.    

It is in this sense that I believe Deming felt that we could reduce variation.
Not in the variety of FEATURES  in a learners education but in the QUALITY with
which the features were attained.

Myron Tribus

========================================================================

Re: Constancy of Purpose/Raff

Martin Charles Raff

Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:02:48

 Deming was always developing his own thinking, and a number of
people have remarked that towards the end of his life he was very
aware of how much there was still to do. Is it not therefore right
for those who believe in his teachings to want to see them continue
to be developed? 

Deming seems to me to have, like other great revolutionary thinkers
such as Newton, Einstein, Marie Curie etc., the effect of unleashing
a whole new world of thought which other people are able to develop
and take forward. This rapid development of thinking following Dr.
Deming's breakthrough seems to me to be already happening - look at
the way that system thinking has taken off, and I believe that this
will ensure that Deming's influence continues for centuries to
come. 

Of course the need to increase our understanding of SoPK is
still very much there and this will lead, I believe, to a further
spread of the influence of Deming and so to the stimulation of yet
further development in the directions which he has has signposted. 

Martin Raff
VISTA Consulting - for a better future
martin@vistaraff.win-uk.net
phone and fax: +44-1789 840418

======================================================================

Need info on SoPK/Vickerstaff

vickers@ozramp.net.au (John Vickerstaff)

Sat, 14 Sep 1996 14:25:54 +1000

General Question..
Could someone please assist me with references or information regarding the
introduction of the Deming term, System of Profound Knowledge? Any
information on the timings, development etc. of Deming's points from the
early days, when I understand he began with about ten points, to his 14
points, 7 deadly diseases & onto the System of Profound Knowledge. 

John Vickerstaff
vickers@ozramp.net.au 

======================================================================

Quality & managers/Kerridge

David Kerridge

Sat, 14 Sep 1996 09:04:50 +0100

Harry Nimon says:

>It is not only the desperate, but the wise, who know when to change and
>when to hold steady.

Yes, I am sure that is true. Many companies who want to learn about Deming are
those who are very successful, compared to the others in their field, but
want to
stay ahead. But we must be ready to respond to the needs of managers, whatever
they are. It requires more knowledge on our part to provide the right
approach to
people in different circumstances, even though the principles are always
the same.

I never heard WED speak about this, but I believe that the current problem
for many managers is not so much profit. or quality, but the stress that
today's
sytems place on them and on their staff. Various ill-advised management
systems,
based on direct cost-cutting and "downsizing" have raised stress to intolerable
levels.

Dr Deming not only taught "Drive out fear", but provided a whole system which
can be efficient without fear. But fear is only one cause of stress:
continual crises,
shortage of time, conflict, and complexity of systems all contribute. The
Deming
management philosophy tackles all these problems.

This may be a more difficult message to explain than quality, productivity,
or profit,
yet I feel that so many people are suffering as a result of existing management
systems, that there is a great opportunity, if we can find the best way to
explain it.



David Kerridge, British Deming Association Scotland

dfk@rsc.co.uk

===========================================================================

Re: Introducing SPC/L'Heureux

"Howard A. L'Heureux"

Sat, 14 Sep 1996 08:45:42 -0700

John:

I see what you're trying to do here, in getting other
people to understand the nature of control charts, but I
fear that it may do for them what it's done for me:  muddy
the definition of control limits.

If you teach it the way you illustrated it, people won't
get the full flavor of the control chart, common and
special causes of variation.  It's vital to point out that
someone thinking that a car accident is a special cause --
doesn't make it so.  It could very well be that every 700th
iteration through its process, a certain traffic light
malfunctions during a peak traffic moment, which sets into
motion a chain of events, that causes the accident -- a
stretch, but it could make the accident come from a common
cause element.

It's important to point out that common and special cause
variation come from control limits -- that's what makes the
bead box such a great example of control limits, in a
mechanical sampling environment.  Brainstorming drive times
and possible reasons for delays might serve a better
purpose for illustrating a Pareto Chart or a Histogram. 
For the drive time example to illustrate a control chart,
you could brainstorm times, plot them on a run chart,
calculate the UCL and LCL, see which points fall outside of
control limits -- maybe none of them will -- the drive to
work may be stable.  If points do fall outside of limits,
only then should you brainstorm possible reasons.  If you
look for the reasons first, it's business as usual -- one
of Dr. Deming's two mistakes:  assigning a cause to a
common cause which is really a special cause; or, assigning
a cause to a special cause which is really a common cause.

Howard A. L'Heureux
Organizational Systems Alignment
hmlheure@ix.netcom.com

=======================================================================

Re: Control charts in education?/Bacal

"Robert Bacal"

Sat, 14 Sep 1996 20:11:04 +0000

On 13 Sep 96 at 11:24, den.list@deming.ces.clemson.e wrote:

> The posting by Bacal does not take TIME into consideration.   We
> should recognize that children learn at different speeds and, 
> therefore,  some may progress faster than others.  However,  we need
> to set a minimum competency that all must meet.

Agreed!
> 
   But with respect to each feature acquired,  there
> should be an attempt to reduce the spread...not by limiting the ones
> who have developed their learning abilities already to a small
> number of features...but by being sure that with respect to any one
> feature,  each student has achieved the standards.    

My feeling is that while this sounds like it makes sense, it doesn't 
take into account a few things. The most important being that the 
only way to reduce the variance is to deprive the more able from more 
education, while bringing up the level of the less able.

Reasoning being that the teaching process and ability intereact...the 
more teaching occurs along with high ability the greater the RATE of 
mastery. 

Maybe I am still not getting this...if your premise is correct, what 
would the process look like for the students? What would be the same 
as now, and different.

While we are talking about education here, the real issue in my view 
is how to apply Deming concepts to situtions where there is no 
product (thing), and where we are dealing with human beings.


> It is in this sense that I believe Deming felt that we could reduce
> variation. Not in the variety of FEATURES  in a learners education
> but in the QUALITY with which the features were attained.

Let's assume we have two students, Alpha and Omega. Omega is high 
ability and is acquiring basic reading skills at a rate 1.5 times 
that of Alpha who, while slower, will acquire the skills. Both are in 
grade three. Given instruction in reading Omega will GROW at a rate 
faster than Alpha. The more we teach Omega, the bigger the spread in 
reading ability, until some ceiling is reached (years down the road).

To reduce the spread we can do what?
And, do we want to?

Robert Bacal, CEO, Institute For Cooperative Communication
dbt359@freenet.mb.ca, Located in Winnipeg,Canada.

=========================================================================

Being open to MBTI/Wingfield

"William D. Wingfield"

Sat, 14 Sep 1996 13:38:06 -0700

Lori Eubanks wrote

> Date: Monday, September 09, 1996 7:00 AM
 
> I agree with Myron Tribus' comments about the MBTI not being indicative
of
> any permanent, invariable personality traits.  I base my observation on
> personal experience.  ... So, in summary, I believe the test
> merely reflects where someone is in his or her life at a given point in
time
> and that the scores are subject to influence by outside variables.

I don't usually reply to messages, I normally lurk in the background and
enjoy
the threads.  However, your message struck a cord about the MBTI.  Your 
comment  about why you changed scores adds validity to the supposition that

it takes a life changing event to change a persons "Type".  Several studies
have 
proven this out over the last 30 years.  Strength scores change but not
basic 
Type.

As a Quality professional for many years, (internal consultant, director,
instructor, facilitator
and a professional consultant)  I have used the MBTI successfully to help
teams develop and 
enhance teambuilding when needed.  I use it when I think it will add value.

Any tool is only useful when used appropriately.  The MBTI is another tool
to help
organizations understand DR Demings teachings.  There is variation in every
process
even the process of developing as humans, transforming people and
organizations.
This is the value of using these instruments in teaching Dr. Demings
theories to
the uninitiated.

To summarily throw them out because we don't agree with their theories or
validity, 
I think, demonstrates an unwillingness to accept variation in the most
basic of systems,
that, is the system of human interactions.

Dave Wingfield
Only God truely understands the system, the rest of us have to keep
learning it.
dwngfeld@calweb.com

========================================================================

Re: Control charts in education?/Sager

Carol Sager

Sat, 14 Sep 1996 18:00:27 -0400

ILX wrote:
>
> Comments from Carol Sager (note clarification-"from"
>
> My understandings re: variation in education are these: All students
> need to learn certain specific skills. Even in elective courses (ones
> that all students do not take) teachers have objectives that should be
> met by all students in the class. Students will learn skills at
> different times, at different rates, and in different ways. Students
> take electives in different areas. They choose different interests.
##########################################################
>From ILX
> The differences in students is not the issue in measuring it the difference> in teaching methods that should be studied . of course for
different kinds> of student groups. The purpose of inspection is to
verify that the process> is working right not just to evaluate the
student.> > That is why we must look at average and spread of the
results of various> teaching methods. On a continual basis.and compare
each year one to past> performance.> Some of this is going on but more
on a macro baisi than for individual> schools and classes.> I am sure
that teachers would be defensive about such measurse just like
> factory workers. It is only when the system is sufficiently non political> that feedback can be effective at addressing the teaching
processes.
#################################################################
reply from Carol Sager

I think the issue to address is Feedback and how to make this as
effective as possible. Most teachers (as with any other
worker/professional/etc.)-want to do the best job they can. If they were
helped to analyze their processes more effectively, they would find more
students achieving the desired results.

One of the biggest differences between education and other organizations
is in the whole area of collection, analysis, and use of data.

 In some factories, workers are given stop watches to time their
procedures. The focus is on improving the process (or continuous
improvement) and not on the individual. It works. Why couldn't this also
work in education?

In education, we have inspection at the end of the line (yearly exams, 
grades, etc.. It doesn't work in the factories and it doesn't work in 
schools.

-- 
Carol Sager, Sager Educational Enterprises
http://www.erinet.com/patterwc/CLIIN/
Critical Linkages II Newsletter; 21 Wallis Road,
Chestnut Hill, MA 02167; V.(617)469-9644; Fax(same)-9639

===========================================================================

Re: Need info on SoPK/Tribus

"Myron. Tribus" <104055.2663@CompuServe.COM>

14 Sep 96 19:51:32 EDT

I'm working from memory and so the following is not trustworthy with respect to
dates but I am confident of the order of events.  Other readers of this forum
will, no doubt,  be able to confirm the dates and be more specific.

In the late 80's or early 90's Deming began to refer to "Profound Knowledge".
He was not specific about the content of PK at that time.  I interpreted him to
refer to the kinds of things a manager would have to know if he were to take
Deming's ideas and put them to work.   

Some time in the early 90's he then presented what he called his "System of
Profound Knowledge" consisting of four major considerations:

1. Ability to treat systems.  (as distinct from managing components as though
they were indepent of one another)

2. Ability to deal with variation. (Statistical analysis of data,  ability to
reason probabilistically)

3. Ability to deal with psychology. (Understanding of human behavior,
motivations, internal and external rewards)

4. Ability to use the theory of knowledge. (My copy of the Encyclopedia
Brittanica has about eleven pages devoted to different aspects of the theory of
knowledge. Deming made reference to it but as with the other elements of his
system of profound knowledge, he did not elaborate or fill in details as to
which of the theories was THE theory he had in mind.  He often referred to C. I.
Lewis,  so that is the best lead.  Lewis in not easy reading.)

On a personal note I must say that I have eschewed the use of the word
'profound' but I always felt that Deming had earned the right to name his own
contributions as he wished.

Since the introduction of the SPK,  quite a few people have written about it and
elaborated on how significant it is.   

My interactisons with Dr. Deming lead me to believe that he did not think of his
SPK as a finished work,  but rather as a basis to start a discussion.  

My guess is he was inspired to present the SPK because he was so frustrated at
how poorly educated he found so many managers to be.   Yes,  they all had
college degrees,  but a credential is not a genuine surrogate for education.
The SPK outlined the areas in which I believe he found managers deficient.

Myron Tribus,  350 Britto Terrace,  Fremont, CA 94539
Ph:510 651 3641  Fax: 510 656 9875
There is no such thing as an immaculate perception
What you see depends on what you thought before you looked

========================================================================

Re: Variation in education/Tribus

"Myron. Tribus" <104055.2663@CompuServe.COM>

14 Sep 96 19:51:36 EDT

It is easy to let the inherent variability in people,  at any stage in their
lives, with to respect to their current status and their goals,  cloud our
understanding of the need to reduce variation in a system of education.

Let me be specific by way of a couple of examples:

If we are teaching children to add a column of numbers,  there should be no
variation in the result of the addition.   If we give a test of addition,  we
should not be content to have a score of less than 100%.  If there is a child
who cannot add, then that needs to be corrected.  No variation should be
allowed.

There may be variation in the TIME required for the child to learn.  There may
be a variation in the SPEED with which the child is able to do addition.  But
there should be no variation in the answers to the addition of a column of
numbers.

Now,  as we look at the SPEED with which a child adds the numbers,  if we were
to work with the children to understand HOW they are doing addition we would
find that they were not using the same process.   So we might enter a discussion
with them as to how they were doing it.   There is an interesting program now in
some schools called COGNET which does just that.  As a result i would expect
that there will be LESS variation in SPEED and that the average of all the
children would be increased.

Similar examples can be made in the field of writing.   All children should be
taught to write simple declarative sentences.   Children should be able to spell
and to check their spelling.   Children should be able to punctuate sentences.
(So should adults,  but that's another matter.)

There will always be variation in the FEATURES of what children undertake to
write.   Some will be able to write short stories that are worth publishing.
Others will only be able to write simple stories that are,  well,  pedestrian.

But all should be able to fulfill the rules of grammar and construction. Again,
the time they take to do this may vary and by concentrating on the process,  the
variation may be reduced.

I hope this helps.

Myron Tribus,  350 Britto Terrace,  Fremont, CA 94539
Ph:510 651 3641  Fax: 510 656 9875
There is no such thing as an immaculate perception
What you see depends on what you thought before you looked

========================================================================
 

Re: Numbers for the DEN/Holland

Neila Holland

Sun, 15 Sep 1996 01:46:45 +0000

At 10:43 AM 9/10/96 +0000, you wrote:
>Of the list of names Mike Newman included, he left off a very prominent and
>regular contributor to the propagation of Deming's insights into the working
>and management of organizations (I don't consider this a philosophy but an
>accurate description of what's going on) is Myron Tribus.  He regularly
>makes valuable comments and engages in dialogue with members of this list.
>Thanks for taking the time to participate, Myron.
>
>John Woods
>jwoods@execpc.com
>
>===================================================================
>
>John,
Thanks for mentioning Myron Tribus.  His contributions are extremely
valuable and I have learned a lot through his discussions.  I am sure he is
also extremely busy like the people in Mike Newman's list, but I appreciate
his dedication to the DEN.  Thanks a lot Myron.
>

=====================================================================

Being open to new ideas/Clauson

Jim Clauson

Sun, 15 Sep 1996 00:35:27 -0400 (EDT)

In a recent post, Myron talked about his belief that Deming had only 
begun to develop SoPK and knew that much work remained.

Then, on a separate topic, Dave Wingfield (a former lurker) states:

QUOTING:
To summarily throw them out because we don't agree with their theories 
or validity, I think, demonstrates an unwillingness to accept 
variation in the most basic of systems, that, is the system of human 
interactions.  Dave Wingfield
END QUOTE.

I think that combining these 2 thoughts stresses one of the benefits 
of this discussion group -- we have created a forum where both those 
further along their personal transformation and those just beginning 
their process can openly discuss ideas.

Some ideas will be deeply rooted in Deming's teachings; while others 
will be "ideas in process" - incomplete theories looking for input.  I 
continue to hope that this forum will be open to all ideas and 
theories relevant to the Deming transformation.  By providing this 
open, unjudging environment, the DEN will continue to provide a safe 
forum for idea and theory development and clarification;  and a 
continuation of Dr. Deming's work.

In this context, I think there is need for the Myrons and the Daves.  
Thanks to each of you for helping us.

Thoughts?

**************> Moderator, Deming Electronic Network <***************
* Jim Clauson, Director              Phone     (W): +1 423 882 4611 *
* Quality Training Programs          Phone/FAX (H): +1 423 717 0250 *
* Center for Quality & Innovation    clauson@deming.ces.clemson.edu *
* Roane State Community College      jrclauson@deming.org           *
* Harriman, TN 37748-5011            clauson_jr@a1.rscc.cc.tn.us    *
******************> Primary Listowner, TQM-L <***********************

====================================================================

Explaining the 14 points/Baxter

baxter@rsc.co.uk (nick baxter)

Sun, 15 Sep 1996 16:59:37 +0100

I was impressed to read the postings on spc and how different persons made
the subject accessible and readily understandable for those that were
attending study groups eg journey times to work. I'm running 2 study groups
in my workplace and would very much appreciate tips games and everyday
examples which those ahead of me have found gone down well in gaining and
holding students interest . I have found that my employees find the
variation in my arrival times at work quite interesting and amusing since I
am the General Manager   

My next topic will be the 14 points. Perhaps the list could take it in
stages by you moderating the postings eg consideration of  1 to 4 of the 14
points, then 5 to 8 etc.

Nick Baxter

[Moderator's note:  Great idea, Nick.  We have had a series of Trainer's 
Exchange exercises for SoPK (and will continue with the next Institute 
conference in OCT96) - so how about a new series of Trainer's Exchanges on
teaching the 14 Points.  Using Nick's suggestion, why not start with Points
1-4.                                                   Jim Clauson]

=========================================================================

Re: Being open to new ideas/Bedell

dbedell@leba.net (Douglas Bedell)

Sun, 15 Sep 1996 13:31:05 -0500

Jim, I couldn't agree more that Dr. Deming's was an evolving system of
philosophy, as any living system is. He gave us the power and insight to
see how individuals can contribute in organizational settings, and the
tools and disciplines available for their use. But new issues, or fresh
variations of old ones, keep arising and need to be wrestled with anew. In
this supposedly enlightened era, for example, controller instincts persist
in almost all sectors-as you suggested the other night in your offering of
Myers-Briggs numbers. Dr. Deming's message was powerful, but it is still
hard to get across, to make converts. We need continually to ponder why
that is so, and to do better with the insights he left us. Best, Doug

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Douglas Bedell, APR                Risk Communication
Resource Relations                 Workplace/Quality Communications
P.O. Box 299                       Community Relations
Mt. Gretna, PA 17064               Newsletters
717-964-3767
FAX: 717-228-0823
e-mail: dbedell@leba.net
------------------------------------------------------------------------

=========================================================================

Dr. Deming/Tribus on learning/Cooper

BCoop1116@aol.com

Sun, 15 Sep 1996 16:06:58 -0400

As usual Myron Tribus is right on track as it regards Dr. Deming.  His
interaction over the years as a student and colleague of Dr. Deming has given
him some unique insights. I watched and learned over the years from both Dr.
Deming and Myron.

With that is a prelude perhaps I can share some of my thoughts on this issue
of new ideas, profound knowledge or continuous learning.  

I talk often about my interactions with Dr. Deming to various groups and one
of the things I always discuss is Dr. Deming's desire to continue to learn
and develop his theories.  In his mind they were never complete.  They
provided a frame work for his future efforts but they were never complete
from his prespective.  I mention that no matter who Dr. Deming talked to
(almost) he would take notes on scraps of paper because he said he learned
from everyone.

I remember when he begin to develop in the late eighties his "physchologhy of
people"  He would ask in many cases Dr. Laurie Broedling or Dr. Linda Doherty
to gather the phychologists in his seminar to discuss how the "people side"
could be intergrated into his fourteen points.  As Myron suggests it was not
until the mid eigties that the germs of his profound knowlege became as
important as his fourteen points. 

Dr. Deming told me that the only reason he set about to write the first
version of his fourteen points was to help him codify his thinking into a
form which management could undertstand.  He also told me he did not have
fourteen ponts for the Japenese because " they did not need them they
understood".  I guess we americans love "Cook Books" and we always want the
perfect answer.  If you understand Dr. Deming and his concept of variation
then by definition his works were not complete just under "construction"  In
fact he told me one time that " we must stay in business as the alterations
of the American management style occurs"  

I appreciate this forum very much because I think it is the one place where
many ideas are expressed but they continue to have a "Deming " focus.  If we
are to continue the efforts that Dr. Deming started then we must grow each
day as he did.  We must be the conduit for ideas and  languge to show the
strenght of Dr. Demings theories rather than the conflict with other views of
the world.  Again as Dr. Deming would say "all theories are correct in their
own universe".  Dr Demings theories are sound and it is up to those of us who
are in this movement to keep that learning and growing spirit alive.

I applaud everyone who contributes anything to this network and we all owe
Jim Clauson a debt of gratitude for all of his efforts.  If we keep growing
as we have been I look forward to our first " National Convention of the
Deming Electronic network users group"

Bill Cooper.  

=====================================================================

re: Being open to new ideas/Nimon

"harry nimon"

Sun, 15 Sep 96 17:08:13 -30000

One of the principle reasons I both remain and have the courage to 
participate.  I have worked quality issues in a variety of ways
for the last 20 years, but am not the expert many are.  I believe
a truly professional organization allows such interaction without
ridicule as long as the topics remain focused (as you aptly do...).

Thanks for the opportunity...

Harry Nimon
=================================================================

Re: Being open to new ideas/Sager

Carol Sager

Sun, 15 Sep 1996 13:51:54 -0400

Jim, 

You bring out so many important points that I would like to comment on 
each and hope that the format of my comments is not too cumbersome to 
follow. Each of my comments is based on my understanding of Deming and I 
would value instructive feedback. 

Jim Clauson wrote:> 
> In a recent post, Myron talked about his belief that Deming had only
> begun to develop SoPK and knew that much work remained.
############################################################

Could there be any disagreement on this point? How could PK or a theory 
of Pk or SoPk be completed? To me it would be a contradiction in terms.
############################################################ 
> Then, on a separate topic, Dave Wingfield (a former lurker) states:
> 
> QUOTING:
> To summarily throw them out because we don't agree with their theories
> or validity, I think, demonstrates an unwillingness to accept
> variation in the most basic of systems, that, is the system of human
> interactions.  Dave Wingfield
> END QUOTE.
> I think that combining these 2 thoughts stresses one of the benefits
> of this discussion group 
> -- we have created a forum where both those
> further along their 
>personal transformation and those just beginning> their process can 
openly discuss ideas.
##########################################################
I do feel this discussion group is beneficial and informative. And I 
also feel it necessary to travel a continuous (never ending) road of 
personal transformation. I feel uncomfortable judging who is further 
along in the process as if there were a well-defined and "one right" 
destination. It would be contrary to my understanding of Deming not to 
openly discuss ideas provided that these ideas went beyond mere opinion 
or "I think--therefore it is.."
#######################################################
> Some ideas will be deeply rooted in Deming's teachings; while others
> will be "ideas in process" - incomplete theories looking for input.  I
> continue to hope that this forum will be open to all ideas and
> theories relevant to the Deming transformation.  By providing this
> open, unjudging environment, the DEN will continue to provide a safe
> forum for idea and theory development and clarification;  and a
> continuation of Dr. Deming's work.
########################################################
It again seems somewhat judgemental (and I know this is the opposite of 
Jim's intent) to label some ideas as incomplete theories looking for 
input. As facts, etc. change, ideas change. Knowledge is created all the 
time. Aren't all of our ideas (even  Deming's) "incomplete theories" 
that will change depending on input? Isn't the essence of the 
continuation of Deming's work--theory development and clarification? 
######################################################################
> In this context, I think there is need for the Myrons and the Daves.
> Thanks to each of you for helping us.
> Thoughts?
#####################################################
Thanks to you , Jim. Where would we be without each other? We are all 
"Critical Linkages" in the quest for Quality.

-- 
Carol Sager, Sager Educational Enterprises
http://www.erinet.com/patterwc/CLIIN/
Critical Linkages II Newsletter; 21 Wallis Road,
Chestnut Hill, MA 02167; V.(617)469-9644; Fax(same)-9639

=============================================================

re: Quality & managers/Nimon

"harry nimon"

Sun, 15 Sep 96 16:57:54 -30000

Here....Here...

I couldn't agree more.  As there are many approaches to answering a
question, but one single proper question (per WED); so to in the 
business world.  Some are thrust into the limelight through 
crisis; others because they are intelligent enough to recognize
the need prior to it becoming a crisis.  All are needed....

==========================================================================

re: Explaining the 14 points/Nimon

"harry nimon"

Sun, 15 Sep 96 17:12:22 -30000

I have found several excellent sites on the net that include models
of various experiments.  I am at home now, but will forward the
location from work tomorrow.  One program obtained from a USAF
location is a "game" that teaches statistical variation and 
control limits.  I have used this several times.  It is a 
"cannon" with variable inputs that "shoots" projectiles and
records their "impact" in relation to the "target."  Multiple
variables; such as projectile weight, wind direction, etc.
may be modified as can aim point.  Try it, it works with the
uninitiated.

[Moderator's note:  This may be the catapult (or Stat-a-Pult) sold by
the Air Force Institute Press in Colorado.    Jim Clauson]

=====================================================================

Broedling speech to WDSG/Cooper

clauson@deming.ces.clemson.edu

Sun, 15 Sep 1996 22:31:37 -0400 (EDT)

                 "THE BUSINESS OF BUSINESS IS PEOPLE"

The following is a transcript of a speech given by Laurie A Broedling, 
Senior VP - Human Relations and Quality for McDonnell Douglas Company.

The speech was delivered to the Quality Conference - Deming Study 
Group, George Washington University, Washington, DC on 08APR96.

Thanks to Bill Cooper for submitting it to the DEN.

====================  Begin Speech Text  ===========================

Today I want to talk to you about reaffirming quality.  By that I mean 
breathing new fire and spirit into the quality movement.

According to an old Chinese proverb, whom the gods would destroy, they 
first condemn to 30 years of success.

As part of the quality movement inspired by W. Edwards Deming, we have 
been "condemned" to 30 years of success.

Over the past several decades -- and in the last decade, most 
particularly -- some of the ideas that are central to our movement 
have gained widespread acceptance throughout the corporate world.  In 
the process, they have gone from being revolutionary in their content 
to being perceived as part of the conventional wisdom.

As you all know, one of Deming's 14 points is to "eliminate slogans."  
Nonetheless, it is a sad fact that many of us in the quality movement 
have been guilty of sloganeering.

Scott Adams, the creator of Dilbert, captured the problem in a recent 
cartoon where a job applicant takes an interviewer to task over the 
use of the word "empowerment."

As the job applicant says, "If you could really make decisions on your 
own it would never occur to you to invent a phrase for it."

But if we have sometimes been guilty of sloganeering, we have other 
problems as well in trying to  communicate an effective quality 
message.

The biggest of those problems -- to my way of thinking -- is that some 
people in the business consulting field have drawn some ideas and 
concepts from Deming, while discarding others.  The total effect of 
this has been to distort ... to dehumanize ... and, I fear, to detract 
from the quality movement.

I am thinking, in particular, of the re-engineering movement - or at 
least some expressions of it.

Re-engineering is sometimes presented as a kind of turbo-charged 
version of Deming -- promising fast and dramatic results.  In fact, 
exponents of re-engineeering are sometimes critical of Deming and TQM 
as offering too much of a gradualist approach to change and 
improvement.

Re-engineering -- often done with the help of outside consultants -- 
is very much of a top-down phenomenon.  Re-engineering seeks 
breakthroughs, not by enhancing existing processes, but by creating 
new and wholly different processes.  Because it has often been 
associated with radical downsizing, re-engineering has become almost a 
code word for pushing up profits by pushing people off the payroll and 
out the door.

In all of this, there is much that is contrary to the thinking of 
Deming -- and, indeed, to the whole concept of quality, as I see it.

Dr. Deming took a holistic approach to quality ... and a holistic 
approach to management.  As he saw it, improvements in quality led to 
improvements in productivity, which in turn led to lower prices, 
greater market share, and future growth.

In his view of the world, the interests of the employees and the 
shareholders were complementary, rather than antiethical.

Deming was highly explicitly on this point.  In "Out of the Crisis," 
he stated, and I quote, "The job of management is inseparable from the 
welfare of the company....Management must declare a policy for the 
future, to stay in business and to provide jobs for their people, and 
more jobs."

According to Deming, loss of market, and resulting unemployment, were 
seldom, if ever, foreordained or inevitable.  They were 
management-made.

In Deming's view, the problem was never people in the sense of the 
multitude of people working for an organization.  It was always 
management.

Re-engineering turns that view of the world upside-down and 
inside-out.  When a company is "re-engineered," it seems that it is 
the people who are to blame for bad performance, while management is 
presumed to have all the answers.

This reminds me of a line in a Berrolt Brecht play, where one of the 
characters says, "The people have lost the confidence of their 
leaders.  They must be punished."

Ladies and gentlemen, quality is not something that comes about as a 
result of all-powerful leaders punishing their people for failing to 
follow.

Quality presupposes integrity -- integrity that is present at all 
levels in an organization.

There is no better or fuller description of the meaning of quality 
than that offered by Max DePree, the chief executive of Herman Miller, 
Inc., which is perennially ranked at the top of the list of the most 
admired companies in its category in the annual Fortune magazine 
survey.  In his book, "Leadership Is An Art," Depree wrote:

"When we talk about quality, we are talking about the quality of 
product and service.  But we are also talking about the quality of our 
relationships and the quality of our communications and the quality of 
our promises to each other.  And so, it is reasonable to think about 
quality in terms of truth and integrity."

Looked at in those terms, quality is a good thing, and in and of 
itself.  In addition -- as Deming pointed out -- quality is efficient 
-- in a way that mere power can never be.

Consider a story that is told of Joseph Stalin.  At the height of the 
terror in Russia, Lenin's widow -- a revered figure in the Communist 
Party -- attempted to criticize some of Stalin's actions.  Stalin 
brought her to heel with the magnificent threat -- "If you don't shut 
up, we'll make somebody else Lenin's widow."

The point here is that any system built on coercion and control, such 
as Stalinist Russia, impedes the flow of critical information (in both 
senses of the word "critical").  And that is not the only disadvantage 
of coercive versus cooperative systems.

Sydney Pollack, the Academy award winning film direction, was eloquent 
in expressing some of the limitations of authority in speaking to 
management guru Warren Bennis.  Pollack noted:

"Up to a point, I think you can lead out of fear, intimidation, as 
awful as that sounds.  There is a lot of leadership that comes out of 
fear, dependence, and guilt.  But the problem is that you're creating 
obedience with a residue of resentment.  If you want to make a physics 
analogy, you're moving through the medium, but you're creating a lot 
of drag, a lot of backwash."

If I were living in a monastery in Tibet, in charge of the monastery's 
TQM program, I might consider advocating quality solely on the basis 
of it being a good thing.  However, since I work for a large 
corporation that is very much in the business of making money, I 
advocate quality programs and people-centered policies on the basis 
that they contribute not just to attitudes and morale but also -- very 
importantly -- to improving the bottom line and winning new business.

Unlike re-engineering, which begins by discarding existing processes, 
Total Quality Management follows a path of engaging people at all 
levels in continually enhancing the processes that determine the flow 
of work.  That will succeed if, and only if, people buy into the need 
for improvement ... and the opportunity to make it.

In recent years, the idea of Kaizen, striving for a large number of 
incremental improvements, has taken something of a back seat to the 
idea of making big one-time breakthroughs through superior innovation 
and creativity.

Deming believed that both Kaizen and breakthroughs (big one-time 
improvements in products and processes) are very important.

The trick, then, is not choosing between the one or the other, but 
learning how to pursue both at once.  A good place to begin is in 
recognizing that creativity exists in all people --- in all levels of 
an organization.

Here is another area where I believe the re-engineering tends to be 
both de-humanizing and destructive in its thinking.  It has embraced 
the idea of a few Nietzchian supermen who determine all real change 
and progress.

But innovative or creative thinking is something that goes on all the 
time in a dynamic organization.  It is a terrible (though common) 
mistake to think of creativity and imagination as the exclusive 
province of the gifted few.

There is a growing body of research showing that creativity is almost 
universally present in people -- at least in childhood.  The 
pre-school years have been described as a kind of golden age of 
creativity, when every child sparkles with artistry and innovative 
problem-solving skills.  Young children paint in bold and daring 
strokes.  They are able to master two or more languages with little 
difficulty.

After that, however, with exposure to more structure and discipline, 
and with more peer group pressure, a kind of rot sets in, and most of 
us grow into artistically stunted adults.  It starts with school and 
it gets a whole lot worse (as the characters in Dilbert would see it) 
as one enters corporate life.  As part of the maturation process, as 
we advance in our analytic skills -- or what is sometimes called 
linear thinking -- all but a few of us become markedly weaker on the 
artistic or creative side -- in so-called non-linear thinking.

No less a genius than Pablo Picasso paid homage to the creativity that 
we all being with.  At an exhibition of children's work, he observed:  
"When I was their age, I could draw like Raphael, but it has taken me 
a whole lifetime to learn to draw like them."

In a similar vein, Albert Einstein was acutely aware of parallels 
between his thought patterns and those of children.  He told one 
interviewer:

"How did it come to pass that I was the one to develop the theory of 
relativity?  The reason, I think, is that a normal adult never stops 
to think about problems of space and time.  These are things which he 
has thought of as a child.  But my intellectual development was 
retarded, as a result of which I began to wonder about space and time 
only when I had already grown up.  Naturally I could go deeper into 
the problem than a child with normal abilities."

If creativity is something that can be un-learned, it is also 
something that can be re-learned.  It can be exhumed -- from the slag 
heap of institutional thinking -- and brought back to life, with 
careful nurturing.

That is something we have tried --- and are trying to do --- at 
McDonnell Douglas.  Through integrated product teams -- spanning 
various disciplines and disregarding hierarchical rank -- we are 
endeavoring to capture more of the creativity, imagination, and 
motivation of all of our people.

I could cite a number of examples where we have achieved extraordinary 
progress through the work of ordinary people released from the 
constraint of ordinary expectations.

To cite just one example:  Thanks to the work of integrated product 
teams, the new E/F Super Hornet version of our F/A-l8-- due to enter 
service with the Navy before the turn of the century -- is able to 
provide 40% more range, greater versatility, and more firepower than 
earlier versions of the Hornet, at a fraction of the cost of a new 
program.

Having said this, let me go a step beyond and address the need for 
creativity of the highest order -- meaning the kind of creativity that 
resulted in the discovery of penicillin, the polio vaccine, or the 
computer chip.

Clearly, there is more than one kind of innovation.  There is the kind 
we have already discussed -- that expands the envelope of an existing 
product or an existing concept.

But there is another kind of innovation -- which not only builds upon 
previous innovations, but also, in some important way, departs from 
them.

Breakthrough thinking of this kind often depends more on individual 
output than on group or team work.  After all, a brain is a unitary 
thing.  Sometimes it does its best work in an informal environment 
where there are no committees or task forces ... where people, working 
on their own, are free to experiment and to think the unthinkable.  
Dr. Deming often referred to Bell Labs as such a place.

At McDonnell Douglas, we have encouraged that kind of thinking at our 
Phantom Works advanced R & D facility in St. Louis.

Just a few weeks ago, some of the top officials in NASA were in St. 
Louis for the rollout of an experimental aircraft, called the X-36, 
which was designed and developed at the Phantom Works.  This aircraft 
-- which has no horizontal or vertical tail and a severely shortened 
wing structure -- may truly change the shape of things to come in 
future aircraft.  It is extraordinarily light and agile.  Its design 
represents the kind of radical simplicity which is characteristic of 
breakthrough thinking.

There is no single answer to the question of how to encourage 
breakthrough thinking in the midst of large and all-too-often 
cumbersome organizations.

Clearly, there are some areas where empowerment is appropriate and 
others where it is not.  For instance, you would not want to rely on 
empowered teams -- given the freedom to ignore established procedures 
and processes -- to install nuclear devices on a submarine.

Management must use common sense and good judgment in striking a 
balance between the need to let go in some areas and the need to 
exercise oversight in others.

On the topic of striking a balance between the one and the other, I 
read an interesting article entitled "TQM, Reengineering, and the Edge 
of Chaos," in a recent issue of Quality Progress magazine.  I would 
urge all of you to read it.

As defined by the author -- Lawrence Leach, the head of a consulting 
firm in Idaho Falls -- "the edge of chaos" is "a constantly shifting 
battle zone between stagnation and anarchy."  For most purposes, this 
is where you want your organization to be ... because systems that are 
too stable will die as the environment evolves, while systems that are 
too chaotic will tend to self-destruct.

One set of forces (the need for order and control) pulls every 
business toward stagnation, while another set of forces (the need for 
growth and creativity) drives it toward disintegration.

Deming's philosophy allows organizations to alter their control 
systems to avoid attraction either to disintegration or ossification.

"TQM provides both sets of forces needed to keep a company together," 
he writes, "Continual improvement provides the force to drive the 
system toward disequilibrium, while other aspects of TQM -- such as 
constancy of purpose, managing the business as a system, and joy in 
work -- provide the restraining forces to keep the organization 
together."

By building in a process of continual improvement, Dr. Deming's 
philosophy makes change the norm within an organization.  People who 
learn how to change their organization in small steps gain the 
confidence and skill to succeed at larger changes.

At the outset of this talk, I noted that many of us in the quality 
movement have been guilty of resorting to slogans.  Without a doubt, 
one of the reasons Deming bothered to include the elimination of 
slogans in his 14 points is the fact that he was espousing a 
profoundly humanistic approach to achieving improvement and creativity 
in the workplace.  He did not want people to become the slaves of any 
theory -- his own included.

Deming concluded every seminar with the same five words, saying, "I 
have done my best."

It is up to each of us to do our best in reaffirming quality within 
our own organizations.

To do that, there are three things that we must do very well.

First, we have to promote the understanding that quality makes good 
sense from a business perspective.  To be understood ... and to be 
persuasive ... we must speak in the language of business, plainly and 
clearly.

Second, we must continue to emphasize the need for incremental 
improvements as well as breakthrough achievements.  Total Quality is a 
journey, not a destination.  Like many journeys, it is a journey that 
carries the hope of self-renewal without self-destruction.

And last, we must never forget that the real bottom line is people.  
At the end of the day, the success of failure of a business depends on 
management's ability to harness the willing participation and 
creativity of people.

Now ... perhaps more than ever ... the business of business is people.  
That is an awesome responsibility ... and for all of us in this room 
... an inspiring challenge.

===========================  End Text  ============================

Re: Explaining the 14 points/Tribus

"Myron. Tribus" <104055.2663@CompuServe.COM>

15 Sep 96 21:23:23 EDT

Be sure to look into the back postings by Jean-Marie Gogue.  He has taken the 14
points up, one at a time,  and raised good study questions.   Clauson should be
able to tell you how to access them.   If they have been lost,  Jim should let
me know.  I have kept a copy of every one of them for future reference.

By the way,  once I relayed to Dr. Deming a question a client had asked me.  It
had been asked so often I wanted to Dr.D's reaction.  

"What should I tell someone who asks, 'Do I have to accept all of the 14
points?'?"

His reply was swift. "No.  They can discover them by themselves."

Myron Tribus,  350 Britto Terrace,  Fremont, CA 94539
Ph:510 651 3641  Fax: 510 656 9875
There is no such thing as an immaculate perception
What you see depends on what you thought before you looked

========================================================================

Re: Quality & managers/Beedon

Julie Beedon

Sun, 15 Sep 1996 12:21:54

 
But fear is only one cause of stress:
>continual crises,
>shortage of time, conflict, and complexity of systems all contribute. The
>Deming
>management philosophy tackles all these problems.
>
>This may be a more difficult message to explain than quality, productivity,
>or profit,
>yet I feel that so many people are suffering as a result of existing management
>systems, that there is a great opportunity, if we can find the best way to
>explain it.

I thought David made an excellent point here - in many ways we
suffer because Deming's name is so closely associated with the
quality movement and very few people I know in the OD field really
understand how much more he had to offer - how could we frame the
whole Deming Transformation message in a 'new' way to cover all
these points and relate to these complex issues which people face
- given that calling it Deming triggers a whole set of stereotypes
and mental models???   

=======================================================================

Re: Being open to new ideas/Beedon

Julie Beedon

Sun, 15 Sep 1996 11:43:50

I recently learned that 

Plato was a student of Socrates before he died

and Aristotle was a student of Plato's before he died ...

I think I have that right

each developed new ways of thinking which were rooted in what they
learnt from their master and yet each has made different
contributions to philosophy.....

Julie Beedon
VISTA Consulting
julie@vistabee.win-uk.net

====================================================================

Re: Being open to MBTI/Beedon

Julie Beedon

Sun, 15 Sep 1996 11:40:16

I liked William's point about MBTI.  I too have used it in a number
of settings:

* it is useful to consider the diversity (variation) of
personality types in a team (even if people change over time) -  at
the point the test is done and the people are working together then
the differences will be part of what makes up the team.  Teams can
review their processes in the light of this thinking and plan to
maximise the contributions of all

* it is useful for teams to think about projects and the types of
work which will be needed to complete them - as well as planning
to maximise each other's contributions they can consider the
learning opportunities the work presents - for example if I have a
prepference for 'big picture' stuff I might avoid details
strenthening my preference and reducing my ability to integrate my
'shadow'  

* finally (and linked to the idea of celebrating diversity) it can
be used to illustrate the ways in which we need each other and the
range of preferences to really be effective in our work.  For me
this highlights the importance of relationships and working at
internal flows - if I know you like details and you are my
customer in the chain I can make sure I include the sort of
information you need even if it is not what I might want to see. 
If we do not know our customers well enough to know their
preferences at tleast by understanding our own we can be sure we
cover all the angles ....  

Julie Beedon
VISTA Consulting
julie@vistabee@win-uk.net

===========================================================================

Re: Need info on SoPK/Beedon

Julie Beedon

Sun, 15 Sep 1996 11:25:52

Thanks to Myron for his thoughts on the development of SPK.

One of the things I like most about SPK as opposed to the 14 points
and 7 deadly diseases is that it is clearly a *system* of
inter-related balanced dimensions - you cannot pick and choose
between the parts because of the way it all hangs together.  Which
makes me wonder if one of the reasons why Deming started to use it
was because people were picking and choosing between the 14 points
- taking some and leaving others.  Of course as this happens we
choose the ones we most understand and relate to and leave off the
ones we find difficult!!  I would be pretty confident that Deming's
intention was for people to appreciate the points and diseases as
a system - perhaps then when he saw what was happening it prompted
him to articulate his thinking with more of an explicit system
structure to it..... 

Julie Beedon
VISTA Consulting
julie@vistabee.win-uk.net 

========================================================================

Re: Variation in education/Beedon

Julie Beedon

Sun, 15 Sep 1996 13:02:18

 
 At the end of the process, they all differ - and they 
>should. But one thing that there should be minimal variation in is in 
>that each has established direction for their lives and identified what 
>they'll need (including in themselves) to realize their aspirations.

I have been fascinated by this whole debate about variation and
education.

One thing that ocurred to me is that in a manufacturing context we
do not measure the people but hte process and thus I wonder if this
thinking could better be applied to education than the output stuff.
....

What are the processes that make up education - I have seen Deming
and Myron talk about these at the BDA conferences and I wonder to
what extent we can review these and develop measures of variation
in them???  

I have a great deal of sympathy with Roberts wrestling with the
amount of variation we want in the output of education - who wants
the system to produce a set of clones???  Yet we do want the system
to provide some equality of opportunity - and my sense is that the
measures for that are rooted in process not in output - but I am
ready to be challenged on this... 

Also my recollection is that Deming focussed more on the problems 
that the processes within education produce in terms of intrinsic
motivation - so how could we measure the reduction in these - or
maybe even how could we measure intrinsic motivation .....  

Julie Beedon
julie@vistabee.win-uk.net

======================================================================

Re: Constancy of Purpose/Beare

dbeare@zetnet.co.uk (David Beare)

Mon, 16 Sep 1996 05:44:04 +0100

At 08:08 11/09/96 -0700, den.list@deming.ces.clemson.edu wrote:
>Mark is quite right.
>
>As I recall, there is a handy verse which neatly sums up this issue of 
>apparent decline in Deming et al:  "It is not that it has been tried and 
>found wanting, rather that it has been found difficult and not tried."
>
>I don't know where the verse came from but it comes in handy now and 
>then, especially when dealing with "difficult processes".
>-- 

John, I like that verse and will probably use it, if you don't mind. In my
job of encouraging fundamental change I often find myself saying "The key to
doing things differently is, first, to truly realise that it is difficult,
and then do it anyway"

I believe that, when faced with change, managers won't admit how difficult
it is because to do so they might have to commit themselves to doing
something risky. It is far easier to pretend it is easy and then blame
someone else for not fixing this easy problem. It is, of course far too easy
for us to bother with!. Not a recipe for profound learning!


Regards,
                 David

Email: dbeare@zetnet.co.uk
Tel:  01224 321550 (evening/weekend)
       01224 883092 (day)

==================================================================

Deming Questions # 26/Gogue

gogue@cri.ensmp.fr (GOGUE J.M. Societe MAST 39 50 99 67)

Mon, 16 Sep 96 08:59:06 +0200

--------------------------  DEMING QUESTIONS  -------------------------- 

A weekly paper including a set of questions copied in the Deming book 
OUT OF THE CRISIS   Chapter 5.  Questions to Help Managers.
By Jean-Marie Gogue

-----

26-1.   (No 51 in the Book) - Deming in a job shop

a)    Are your customers better satisfied now, one by one, than they were 
       two years ago? Why?

b)   How about materials and equipment? How many suppliers have you for 
       any one type?

c)   If more than one, why? What steps are you taking towards reduction?

d)   How about maintenance of equipment: improving?

e)   How about performance on the job?

f)   How about your turnover rate?

g)   What about repeated operations that do not change with the product: do 
       you keep a running record and a control chart of some of them?

h)   Are some of your problems stable? If yes, where lies the responsibility 
      for improvement? (With the management.)

COMMENTS
*The present style of management is the biggest producer of waste, causing 
 huge losses whose magnitudes can not be evaluated, can not be measured.* 
Deming, The New Economics (page 22). What is the number of job shops 
in your country?  What is the total amount of the national waste caused by 
their poor management? Who pays?

-----

26-2.   (No 52 in the Book) - Understanding the concept of Training

a)    Do your people that are engaged in training understand when an 
       employee is trained and when he is not yet trained?

b)    Do they know that they have only one chance? That an employee once 
       trained can not be helped by further training in the same procedures? 

COMMENTS
The concept of Training is misunderstood by executives and even HR 
managers in many companies. People consider training is a commodity, 
a purchased product which makes folks have skill in the same sense as 
when you say a cleansing product makes furniture shine. False. Training 
has no "mechanical" effect, except in some skills, e.g. typewriting. It 
aims at facilitating a learning process which is hidden in the individual 
mind. A training session is one of a kind. The effect of training can be 
evaluated with control charts (Out of the Crisis, page 252).

-----

Jean-Marie Gogue
President
The French Deming Association
Versailles   France
gogue@ensmp.fr

=======================================================================

Re: Introducing SPC/Nimon

"harry nimon"

Mon, 16 Sep 96 7:53:24 CDT

The model I was thinking of yesterday was "Variation" by Steve Horn 
(steve@horn.demon.co.uk).  I did find it in the Clemson tqmbbs software 
listing at one time.  It is a lot of fun......

########################################
Harry Nimon@Services@Ops Hou                      # 
Mail 130109; Phone: 518-6582: Pager: 763-0351# 
Internet: HNimon@netgate.compaq.com            #     
=======================================================================

MBTI/Crow

James Robert Crow

Mon, 16 Sep 96 09:51:22 EDT

>Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 03:53:30
I also have some concerns regarding the use of the MBTI as a management
tool.  My concerns have to do basically with the potential of placing a
person in a box and ascribing behavior to that person because of the results
of the test.  Once we are able to do this we can ignore that person in the
future.  We rob them of their humanity.  This could be simular to ascribing
behavior to a person because of their skin color, national orgin, etc.

Many years ago the manager of a group to which I was assigned attended a
seminar which claimed to be able to predict behavior based on body types.
He returned full of enthusiasm for his new found knowledge, and promply
called us together for an explaination.  I was immediately against the idea.
I did not believe that body types had that much influence on behavior, and
was very concerned that body types could be used to classify people and
pigion hole them.  After a heated discussion he concluded that my opposition
to his plan was because of my body type, and could therefore be ignored.
But, I did manage to acquire a few allies and we did not pursue that latest
management fad.

I think Lori Eubanks has a point.  I have always thought that the MBTI was
only a reflection of how you felt about yourself that day, and that over
time this could change, as you are faced with new challenges.  I think the
MBTI is possibly most useful for a person thinking about making some changes
in their life.  The MBTI can give them a picture of how they see themselves
today, and if they want to move into another area, career, these are some
potential obstaciles that will need to be delt with.  Many outplacement
companies use this as a beginning step in preparing a person to deal with
unemployment, and the search for a new job, career, start a business, etc..

As an additional comment there is a saying or truth that any strength
carried to an extream becomes a weakness.  This is to say, "I like the way
John analyzes situations before making a decision.  He is not a shoot from
the hip person.  Carried to an extream John analyzes everthing to death and
it is difficult to get decisions out of him.  On the other hand there is
Bill.  Bill can make a decision, and he does so quickly, but I wish he would
take the time to study each situation before making a decision, just last
week he cost us a bundle because he made a snap decision to send out product
which he knew did not exactly meet the customers expectations.

A management team made up of all thinkers or feelers will have definate
problems.  One can't make a decision, and the other has difficulty staying
on track for any length of time.  A possible use of a MBTI would be in
putting together management teams, so that you have a balance.  While the
MBTI would not be the only criteria it could be one of the tools.  The
management team should be advised of the purpose of having this mix, so that
the big idea person knows that when the questioning, analyst says, "Have you
considered?", that that is his/her role in the organization, and that the
person isn't raining on his/her parade, but rather fulfilling a valuable
role in the organization.

Robert Crow,            The Crow Group
jr1crow@mindspring.com, Continual Improvement
Voice (770) 461-1177,   Optimization of the System
FAX   (770) 461-1177,   Focusing Organizational Energy
250 Thornton Drive,	Motivating Work Environments
Fayetteville, GA 30214

============================================================================

Re: Explaining the 14 points/Crow

James Robert Crow

Mon, 16 Sep 1996 09:23:31 -0400 (EDT)

At 04:59 PM 9/15/96 +0100, you wrote:
>I was impressed to read the postings on spc and how different persons made
>the subject accessible and readily understandable for those that were
>attending study groups eg journey times to work. I'm running 2 study groups
>in my workplace and would very much appreciate tips games and everyday
>examples which those ahead of me have found gone down well in gaining and
>holding students interest .

 I have found that my employees find the variation in my arrival times at
work quite interesting and amusing since I am the General Manager   

>Nick:

No doubt your employees are looking at your arrival times at work as an
example of leading by example.  Your requirements that they arrive at work
on time consistently.  They are probably able to observe your arrival times,
are they able to observe your departure times?  You might keep a record of
your departure times and present this to the group in the form of a control
chart to demonstrate that your position is not an 8 to 5 job, and as a
method of teaching variation and common cause vs. special cause.

>My next topic will be the 14 points. Perhaps the list could take it in
>stages by you moderating the postings eg consideration of  1 to 4 of the 14
>points, then 5 to 8 etc.
>
>Nick Baxter
>
>[Moderator's note:  Great idea, Nick.  We have had a series of Trainer's 
>Exchange exercises for SoPK (and will continue with the next Institute 
>conference in OCT96) - so how about a new series of Trainer's Exchanges on
>teaching the 14 Points.  Using Nick's suggestion, why not start with Points
>1-4.                                                   Jim Clauson]
>
>=========================================================================
>
>
Robert Crow,            The Crow Group
jr1crow@mindspring.com, Continual Improvement
Voice (770) 461-1177,   Optimization of the System
FAX   (770) 461-1177,   Focusing Organizational Energy
250 Thornton Drive,	Motivating Work Environments
Fayetteville, GA 30214

======================================================================

Re: A 'brush with death' needed?/Newman

Downstrm@aol.com

Mon, 16 Sep 1996 10:41:06 -0400

I also have seen the same pattern with companies that successfully(?)
undertake the transformation.  There is one other catalyst for that type of
change I believe and that is if the organization is lead by an strong
individual that has a very internal, visionary belief that this Deming way is
the only way to achieve true long term innovation and improvement.
 Unfortunately, there are very few people in this category.  Another big
issue is that if a company is publicly held it also must fight the "Wall
Street Mentality" of generating short term financial improvements to keep
stock/dividends up.  I started to write a white paper on this a few years ago
entitled;  "The Comfort Zone"  which basically stated that most companies'
performance is governed by their system and it was in control.  They
continued to try programs like JIT, SPC, SDWT, etc, but never really changed
their overall system.  Their financial performance would vary within their
own control limits(comfort zone).  They would attribute the variation either
good or bad to whichever program they were trying to implement. Things were
never quite good or bad enough to force the organization to truly change it's
system. If financials were up they would continue program, but it went down
they were off in search of another.   The were attributing their common cause
variation specifically to each program.  The only way for true transformation
is if the company experienced a special cause(backs against the wall
financially) and at the same time had the top person take a lead role in
implementing a Deming approach.  The only other way is if the top person
regardless of current financial position has the vision to take up the
crusade to transform the business.

Let's hear some other comments.  Maybe later I will add some of my own
experiences with an organization that implemented many Deming based changes,
but still has not changed the system.

Mike Newman
Downstrm@aol.com

==================================================================

Re: SPC & culture change/Newman

Downstrm@aol.com

Mon, 16 Sep 1996 10:58:53 -0400

I would like to add my comment about SPC implementation within an
organization.  In my opinion the first place to start SPC is with the
President of the company.  If the top people in the organization are not
using statistics to help them make decisions at their level the mistakes they
will make in determining direction for the whole company will greatly out
weigh any improvements you can make in manufacturing.  Remember it wasn't the
tellers fault that the bank went out of business.  

The second reason they need to understand variation and SPC is that as you
progress through implementation in manufacturing there will come a time when
the SPC tells you to do one thing when it is not obvious to management that
this is the right move.  I find that this normally happens when you request a
significant machine improvement ($$$).  If they do not understand the
statistical reasoning they will have a hard time signing up for the
expenditure.  If they do not approve it this becomes a very visable sign
throughout the organization that the old way still wins when things get
tough.  It is difficult to rebound workers buyin/morale after this happens a
couple of times.

One last note.  The President is the most important person to start with, but
a very close second it the CFO.  The CFO and their departments really drive
many organization's actions by the way that they analyze and show the
financial information.  If they are still showing info in the format of this
quarter/month vs same period last year and comparisons to budget it will be
very difficult to change the systems within the company.


Mike Newman
Downstrm@aol.com

====================================================================

Sources on SoPK/Townes

"Michael D. \"Mike\" Townes"

Mon, 16 Sep 1996 08:18:51 -0700

I have been using Deming's work for years, relying most heavily on his
'Chaos' book and Wm. Sherkenbach's summary workbook.  I also use my
notes from Deming's 4-day seminar that I attended in '88 or '89.

Apparently, this was before Deming began talking about SoPK in the way 
you do here.

How/where can I learn more about SoPK?
-- 
Michael D. Townes
United States Postal Service
12459 Goodwood Blvd., Baton Rouge, LA  70815-6725   U.S.A.
mdtownes@premier.net  504-273-4383 FAX 504-296-7621

=====================================================================

Re: Variation in education/Newman

Downstrm@aol.com

Mon, 16 Sep 1996 11:42:19 -0400

I have had the discussion many times with educators about their paradigm of
12 years of primary education.  It seems to me that instead of requiring 12
years of education to receive a diploma we should change the system to one
that has distinct sets of skills to be learned.  These would be the basic
skills to live and survive in society and become good citizens that
contribute to our future well being.  It would also include skills that
support the continued gaining of knowledge throughout life, either continued
in college or  just during the process of living life.  This system would be
set up so that individuals could progress at their own speed as long as they
were able to show the ability to educationally and socially function at the
next level.  It might take some people 15 years to master the material that
they currently are exposed to in 12, but there will also be many that can
progress this far in 9 years.  In either case we are currently suboptimizing
each of these groups; preventing them from reaching the potential they are
capapble of.

Mike Newman
Downstrm@aol.com

==========================================================================

Explaining the 14 points/Baxter

baxter@rsc.co.uk (nick baxter)

Mon, 16 Sep 1996 18:57:56 +0100

Jim could you take Myrons comment forward namely  'Be sure to look into the
>back postings by Jean-Marie Gogue.  He has taken the 14 points up, one at a
>time,  and raised good study questions.  
> Clauson should be able to tell you how to access them.   If they have been
>lost,  Jim should let me know.  I have kept a copy of every one of them for
>future reference.'

[Moderator's note:  Jean-Marie's posts have been specifically related to the
questions on OOC - and while touching on the 14 Points, may not have directly
addressed them individually.                            Jim Clauson]

In fact a series of questions relating to each point may assist students to
discover the value of each of the points by drawing there attention to
certain aspects of each point.

By the way, David Kerridge has an interesting exercise wherebye the student
has to identify the impact that each of the points has in helping to improve
Quality; productivity; Profit; Safety; and whether the relationship is
direct or indirect . I will let David elaborate.

Greetings from Scotland

Nick Baxter

=====================================================================

Re: Control charts in education?/Harris

Thomas Harris

16 Sep 96 15:15:06 CDT

From: Tom Harris
Robert Bacal and others interested,
Concerning your example of Alpha and Omega (students) learning in the
third grade, you're pretty close I think.  My question would be,
however, why do we have to limit either student in his educational
quest.  If Omega has higher ability and thus learns faster, he will
finish a given topic sooner than his friend Alpha.  This doesn't mean
though that Omega stops when he finishes the "requireds" for the program.
He keeps going until he can go no further.  He doesn't extend into the
fourth grade stuff, just deeper or further into the details of the
third-grade stuff...much like doing graduate work; i.e., more and more
detail about the requireds.  THIS is where the teacher comes in.  S/He
must be aware of the capabilities of each student and be willing/able
to work with that to keep the students from "topping out" too soon.
As Dr. Myron Tribus will tell you, the learning process takes place in
several levels; e.g., considerably more than learn, regurgitate for the
test, sell the book, brain-dump.  That's just level one.  There are at
least 5-6 levels above that.

I've been teaching for 30+ years and have only discovered the power of
this type of teaching process in the last 3-4 years.  Sure wish I'd
known of it when I first started back in 1962.  No telling where my
former students would have wound up by now.  Ask Dr. Tribus about David
Langford and his work with David.  Fascinating stuff.  Deming all the
way but not exclusively.  Lots of other research is included; e.g.,
multiple-intelligences (Feuerstein, et. al.), Bloom, etc.

Tom Harris, Ph. D., Prof. Bus. Mgt.
St. Philip's College
1801 M. L. King Blvd.
San Antonio, TX 78231
Voice 210-531-3494
"Continual improvement involving everyone"
...Imai

=======================================================================

Serial dilution Vs Parallel development/Taylor

Morris Taylor

Mon, 16 Sep 1996 21:15:27 +0100

For many years, as an extra-curricular activity, I taught something with a
Japanese origin to University students.

For now, let's call the subject 'X' to maintain focus on the process and
avoid getting bogged down in content.

Over the years I noticed what I thought was a phenomenon unique to X.
Various schools of thought developed. Different ways of interpreting and
disseminating the original philosophy were proposed by beginners and
'experts' alike.

It was generally accepted by the originator and those who studied his work,
that he had himself distilled what he had learned from others and combined
it with his own thoughts to form X.

Some people wanted X to be kept intact as they understood it. They argued
that the way in which they had been taught, and had come to understand X,
was the true or only way.

Some people wanted to be free to develop both the philosophy and the
activity. They used phrases like 'living organism which had to be kept alive
by changing it' - sometimes as they saw fit.

Some people wanted a curriculum.

Some did not. 

Some didn't know what they wanted.

And so on.

I never did figure who was 'right'.

But I came to subscribe to the theory that it is important to understand the
difference between process and content, and to know when you are talking
about which. 

I noticed during the debate on variation in education that some participants
were discussing content when it seemed that what they were saying really
referred to process. It also seemed that some were flipping between content
and process, ad hoc. I became confused.

Mark Twain made a wonderful observation about the risks involved in
constant/continuous/continual improvement. His remarks may help us to
consider some of the risks to a body of work like the Deming philosophy as
we debate and develop our understanding of it and how best to spread that
way of thinking, being, doing and having . They may give a clue to what
could happen if we dilute as opposed to develop WED's work - whether in
parallel or serial.

I quote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
	 A Plan for the Improvement of English Spelling
			  by Mark Twain

	For example, in Year 1 that useless letter "c" would be dropped
to be replased either by "k" or "s", and likewise "x" would no longer
be part of the alphabet.  The only kase in which "c" would be retained
would be the "ch" formation, which will be dealt with later.  Year 2
might reform "w" spelling, so that "which" and "one" would take the
same konsonant, wile Year 3 might well abolish "y" replasing it with
"i" and Iear 4 might fiks the "g/j" anomali wonse and for all.
	Jenerally, then, the improvement would kontinue iear bai iear
with Iear 5 doing awai with useless double konsonants, and Iears 6-12
or so modifaiing vowlz and the rimeining voist and unvoist konsonants.
Bai Iear 15 or sou, it wud fainali bi posibl tu meik ius ov thi
ridandant letez "c", "y" and "x" -- bai now jast a memori in the maindz
ov ould doderez -- tu riplais "ch", "sh", and "th" rispektivli.
	Fainali, xen, aafte sam 20 iers ov orxogrefkl riform, wi wud
hev a lojikl, kohirnt speling in ius xrewawt xe Ingliy-spiking werld.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

By now, with any luck, you may have lost interest in what X was ...?

Sincere Regards

Morris Taylor 

Radical Solutions
at
MOTIVATION TECHNOLOGY
One Belgrave Terrace	
ABERDEEN				
UK
AB25 2NR

+44 (0)1224 633 222 	(Voice)
+44 (0)1224 646 999 	(Fax)

====================================================================

Does the customer Know?/Crow

James Robert Crow

Mon, 16 Sep 96 17:23:09 EDT

If you will look at Deming's diagram of a system, he say's that you do
consumer research to learn what the customer likes and dislikes regarding
your product or service.  This information can then be used by research and
development to develop new products or improve existing products.  The
customer is not the only source of information.  You should also look at
your industry, technology, and try to see where things are headed.  How will
this influence your industry and company.

A reason for doing these things is not just to develop new and improved
products, but to identify critical success factors.  Critical success
factors are things you must do consistently well to be successful in your
line of business.  These things will be different for a bank, an airline, a
manufacture of automobiles, or computers, but regardless of the business or
industry you are in there are certain things you must be able to do well to
be successful in that business.  Customers are a source of information.

Once you have an understanding of the critical success factors for your
business, you need to know how well you do these things.  In other ways you
need a method to measure system effectiveness.  Variation is a good way to
measure the critical success factors because it will tell you if you have a
stable system and what kind  of variation you are experiencing.  This
initial measurement of the system is neither a good or bad number, it simply
is an indication of how well the system is functioning at this point in time.

You can then use these critical success factors to back into the
orgainzation and identify and define your key cross organizational
processes.  By determining up front how you will measure each process as you
begin to improve processes you have a method of determining if the changes
you are making are beneficial.

I remember reading in a book by John Kenneth Galbraith, the economist, about
1973 that the customer does not know what he wants.  The customer was not
demanding hydralic brakes, the mechanical brakes worked just fine.  He was
not demanding power brakes, nor disk brakes, nor ABS.  But the automobile
companies in looking for a method of gaining a competitive advantage came up
with these improvements and then used them to market their product.

The customer was not demanding that Boeing build the 747, or that Lockheed
build the L-1011, but both of these companies determined that it would be to
their advantage to build them and that the public could then be pursuaded
that there were advantages in flying on these aircraft.

I once met the man that sold Delta Air Lines its first group insurance
policy.  He was visiting with Mr. Woolman, who was president of the company
at that time.  Mr. Woolman invited him to come out into the hanger so he
could show him something.  They walked from Mr. Woolman's office to the
hanger which was attached to the general office in those days.  In the
hanger was a brand new DC-3.  "Just look at the size of that thing." Mr.
Woolman said.  "Why we never will fill it up."  In their original
configuration the DC-3 carried 21 passengers.

Robert Crow,            The Crow Group
jr1crow@mindspring.com, Continual Improvement
Voice (770) 461-1177,   Optimization of the System
FAX   (770) 461-1177,   Focusing Organizational Energy
250 Thornton Drive,	Motivating Work Environments
Fayetteville, GA 30214

=====================================================================

Re: Constancy of Purpose/Nimon

"harry nimon"

Tue, 17 Sep 96 7:18:06 CDT

It may also be a situation of denial.  The managers have, for years, been 
functioning at this level and are now being faced with the fact that they 
have not been efficient.  This is an admission of personal 
failures/inadequacies many will not lightly face (thus the WED statement of 
the need to drive out fear...).

########################################
Harry Nimon@Services@Ops Hou                      # 
Mail 130109; Phone: 518-6582: Pager: 763-0351# 
Internet: HNimon@netgate.compaq.com            #     
########################################

==================================================================

Re: A 'brush with death' needed?/Crow

James Robert Crow

Tue, 17 Sep 1996 08:56:12 -0400

I agree with Mike.  As long as a company is moderately successful there is
little motivation to change.  If it ain't broke don't fix it.

I also agree that to successfully implement continual improvement your need
to implement a system to support the continual improvement process.  In my
studies of companies that have tried to implement continual improvement,
TQM, or Teams, they have attempted to do this on top of their old internal
systems that are driving win lose behaviors.  I have said it before and I
will say it again - "Systems Drive Behavior.  Pay for performance, Team of
the month, Commission pay, employee of the month, sales person of the month,
ranking plants, ranking people, poorly defined selection and promotion
policies, and managing by the numbers all drive competitive behavion, and
work to establish an adversarial internal work environment which is counter
productive to teamwork within the organziation.  These practices are also
the cause of suboptimization and a tremendous loss to organizations around
the world.

I am sure I have told you about visiting a local company several years ago
and getting a look at their monthly sales bulltin.  Prominately displayed in
the upper right hand corner was a picture of the sales person of the month -
300% over quota.  All of the other sales people were lined up below him in
rank order in relationship to how they stood on the monthly quota.  "Have
you done any time studies to see how these monthly quota's are affecting
you?" I asked.  "What do you mean?"  "My theory would be that you sales will
tend to peak at the end of the month as your sales people scramble to meet
quota."  "Well they do." came the reply, and we don't know what to do about it."

I talked with this person a couple of weeks later, and he said that 70% of
their sales occured in the last 2 days of the month.  
"What does this do to shipping?"  
"Shipping goes crazy, then they have very little to do the rest of the month"
"How does this affect Accounts Receivable?"
"Has the same impact there also"
"How does this affect inventories?"

What you could see was a lot of suboptimization of the system being driven
by commission pay and monthly sales quota's.

This is an extream example, but to a greater or lesser degree probably takes
place in most companies having a quota system.  By the way this person said
that at the end of each quarter there was an even greater volume of orders,
and at the end of the year, a flood.

We might take a moment to look at the kinds of behavior produced by
competition and teamwork.

        Teamwork                        Competition
        Win-Win                         Win-Lose
        Shared Information              Secretive
        Working Together                Working for Self
        Honest-Open Communications      Deceitful/Closed Communications
        Trusting                        Suspicious
        Trustworthy                     Untrustworthy
        Collaboration                   Us Vs. Them Thinking
        Synergy                         Turf Wars

Just as Deming says this kind of thinking ignors the existance of the
system, and destroys the system.  The CEO must be on board.  This person is
in a position to make fundemental changes to how the organization operates.
Withour his/her very active support not a lot of real change will take place.

Robert Crow,            The Crow Group
jr1crow@mindspring.com, Continual Improvement
Voice (770) 461-1177,   Optimization of the System
FAX   (770) 461-1177,   Focusing Organizational Energy
250 Thornton Drive,	Motivating Work Environments
Fayetteville, GA 30214

=================================================================================

Re: Need info on SoPK/Collins

collinsc@host003.mis.pinellas.k12.fl.us (Chris Collins)

Tue, 17 Sep 1996 08:06:49 -0400

Dr. Tribus,

Based on Dr. Demings comments, I am under the impression that Barbara
Lawton, Dr. Deming's student, first explored the terminology Profound
Knowledge in an attempt to better articulate Deming's foundational theory
for the 14 points and that Dr. Deming was comfortable with the notion,
later expanding on it, as a way to help people anchor their knowledge base.
Perhaps Dr. Lawton could shed some light on this.

Chris


Christine C. Collins, Quality Facilitator, Quality Academy,
Pinellas County Schools  P.O. Box 2942  Largo, FL  34649-2942
813-588-6295  FAX 813-588-6530

Introducing variation/Dean

"joyce dean"

Tue, 17 Sep 96 10:01:42 PST

     Although I have trouble keeping up with all of the Den-List messages, 
     I have particularly been interested in those that are related to the 
     trainers exchange.  It seems like time that I contributed to that.
     
     I have been applying SPC--in particular XmR charts--to issues in human 
     services for about 2 years now.  I am not a statistician, but have 
     spent a week in Don Wheeler's basic SPC course.  Perhaps being such a 
     novice helps me to translate the statistical concepts for others who 
     have never heard about SPC and think of statistics as a dirty word.
     
     Last week I did a keynote presentation for a statewide conference on 
     supported employment.  (Supported employment is a strategy used to 
     help employers to include people with significant disabilities in 
     their workforces, by providing long-term support to the employer 
     and/or the employee--rather than discarding these individuals into 
     segregated, sheltered work settings.) 
     
     The conference consisted primarily of direct service staff (i.e., 
     entry level workers), their supervisors and mid-managers from small 
     not-for-profit community service organizations, schools, and state 
     agencies such as Vocational Rehabilitation.  600 of them.  I couldnt 
     believe, as the conference approached, that I had chosen to talk abt 
     applying concepts of variation to how they do their jobs--related to 
     supported employment.  But, the session was very well received, the 
     audience was engaged throughout, and I felt that I had done as well as 
     I had hoped I would in translating the concepts to the group.  
     Therefore, I thought I might share with you a couple of the strategies 
     that I used during the presentation.
     
     1)  I had one example that I kept returning to throughout the 
     presentation, allowing the audience to see the concepts of variation 
     grow around that familiar example. I selected one that most everyone 
     in the room had experience with...:  the number of minutes that it 
     took to get checked in at the airport once they got up to the counter, 
     the last time they flew.  I asked everyone to write that number down, 
     pass it to the table's leader, and then that leader quickly read off 
     numbers to me.  I only sampled the numbers, collecting probably 50 
     from the group...and entered them directly onto a histogram.  I never 
     actually turned those into an XmR chart...but having that histogram, 
     that had been built before their eyes, with their own numbers, turned 
     out to be an invaluable reference at several times thru the session.
     
     2)  In a followup session, the small group wanted to actually do a XmR 
     chart, and I didn't have data.  So, we just generated 25 numbers--each 
     person saying a new number--I gave no instructions about the size of 
     the number.  It turned out that the chart showed our number-generation 
     process was in control, with natural process limits at 0 and I think 
     25.  It gave us a great--and very simple--chance to talk about "in 
     control" and what might comprise a "fundamental shift" if we wanted to 
     change/improve our process; and what might have sent it out of 
     control.
     
     Both examples included numbers generated by the group--which brought 
     them into the graphing process.  The connection between the histogram 
     and the XmR chart was another key that helped.
     
     This is too long a post...sorry. 
     
     Joyce Dean
     Senior Research Assistant
     University of Oregon
     
     Joyce_Dean@ccmail.uoregon.edu
     ph: 541.346.2476
     fax: 542.346.5517
     
=======================================================================

Re: Control charts in education?/Kromkowski

Kromkowski@aol.com

Tue, 17 Sep 1996 11:39:55 -0400

In a message dated 96-09-15 00:12:06 EDT, Bacal wrote:

<< Let's assume we have two students, Alpha and Omega. Omega is high 
 ability and is acquiring basic reading skills at a rate 1.5 times 
 that of Alpha who, while slower, will acquire the skills >>

Whatever else meritorious might be in your post, this assumption at its core
is at odds with my understanding of Deming's plea for understanding variation
and psychology.

1. _high_ ability, what does that mean?

2.  the eyeballing [especially with the false cloak of data (1.5 times the
rate)] of these kinds of judgments leads to pygmalian effect.


Part A. 

I submit that when when D was writing about "reducing variation", what he is
in part  talking about is "increasing prediction".  Increased prediction
leads to sounder judgments about allocation of resources.  Misallocation of
resources is waste. The ethical/morally component of D ideas of what is wrong
about waste/poor prediction should not be underestimated.

Part B.

In the context of learning, central to D's theory regarding psychology (as I
understand it), is that what at the core humans are is curious, learning
creatures. Curiosity and learning bring us happiness and joy in life (of
which work is a part). (One might well consider the basis for St. Thomas
Aquinas thesis of the importance of rationality in the discernment of what is
right, good and divine.) D further suggests that certain aspects of society,
institutions, upbringing, etc. chip away destructively at this source of
inate joy in individuals. (compare Rousseau).  

I submit, that to the extent that variation is to be reduced in the context
of education, what D would have suggested is variation/deviation from the
happy, curious, learning, joyous individual is that which is to be removed.
 Moreverover, the instititutions, practices, etc. listed by D in TNE are
_common (systemic) causes_ of this variation from the ideal Creator-intended
state of joy in learning and curiosity.  What ever differences which exist
between Alpha and Omega are far more likely than not due to common causes
rather than special causes. (My assumption here is only that humanity for all
it problems has been a stable system for at least 40,000 to 100,000 years.) 

Everyone learns at different speeds.  So what. This is cannot be a surprising
finding given what D. and S. have taught, i.e., that even the most stable of
systems produce variation.  How much attention given to these
details/differences may well be treating a common cause as a special cause.
 The waste in 100% inspection of children for these differences might well be
considered.  Moreover, to what extent does this attention to the noise of
differences, divert attention from the central aim of the human system:
 happy, curious, learning individuals (at what ever age).

The radicalness of D call should not be dismissed.

John D. Kromkowski
Attorney at Law
The Jefferson Bldg. -- Suite 103
105 W. Chesapeake Ave.
Towson, MD   21204

Tel.  410-821-6116
Fax. 410-828-0705

also Kromkowski@aol.com

======================================================================

Learning fixed, time variable/Harris

Thomas Harris

17 Sep 96 10:38:37 CDT

From:
Mike Neuman pretty well hit the nail on the head when he espoused
making learning fixed and time variable.  I have been a proponent of
that process for at least 20 years and thought that I was almost
alone in my proposal.

The only reason that I can find that we start school in August/
September and stop in May/June is that it fit the agricultural
economy at the time public schooling started.  It made sense then.
But this is now and less than 2 percent of the US population makes
its living on the farm nowadays.  So why do we still cling to the
old agricultural format?  It's comfortable and MUST BE SUCCESSFUL
SINCE WE'VE BEEN DOING IT ALL THIS TIME. (sarcasm intended)

Since the time was fixed, we had to have some way to indicate that
not all students learn at the same pace; ergo, GRADES.  Grades
indicate that some students got most of the stuff intended, but
most of the students got something less.  The entire system is
based, IMHO, on failure, not success.  In other words, if you don't
get an "A" from the instructor, you obviously failed at something,
so we'll give you a lesser grade.  How many years can a student be
in a system like this and still maintain a "yearning for learning?"

OK.  I've vented (but I don't feel any better for some reason).
Comments?

Tom Harris, Ph. D., Prof. Bus. Mgt.
St. Philip's College
1801 M. L. King Blvd.
San Antonio, TX 78231
Voice 210-531-3494
"Continual improvement involving everyone"
...Imai

====================================================================

Re: Variation in education/Taurman

ILX

Tue, 17 Sep 1996 09:16:06 -0500 (CDT)

RESPONSE

Whether or not it takes 9 or 15 years to complete an education would by
depend on the process used for teaching at least as much as the ability of
the student to partipate in the process. It saeesmt to me too many in this
discussion focus on the student and student ability. We should think of and
use student progress as a indicator of the how well the teaching process is
wrking. 

The very point Deming was trying to make was is, It is the process that
determines the out come. The very reason for measuring the student should be
to evaluate and improve the processes used.

Eugene Taurman
interLinx
ilx@execpc.com
http://www.execpc.com/~ilx

=========================================================================

TQM applications within Law Enforcement Organizations

delph@luna.cas.usf.edu

Tue, 17 Sep 96 11:12:49 EDT

[Moderator's note:  This request is from a non-subscriber - pls copy
his e-mail address on responses.             Jim Clauson]

========
I am currently taking a class titled TQM Basics.  Though this
is not my first exposure to these concepts I am, at times,
unsure how this management philosophy fits in a public sector
organization.

I have read many management books by different authors; Tom
Peters, Deming, Peter Drucker, and others.  All these books seem to 
discuss how the new styles of management can and do affect the
profits and financial well being of the company.  In a public
sector agency, such as a Sheriff's Office, there is no profit
motive because we operate as a monopoly, free from economic competiton.

My question is, what is the motive for public sector agencies 
to adapt and implement these new management philosophoes?

My thinking is that the only pressure or motivation to change
would be to keep your elected position or would be to receive
increased funding.  Is this a proper direction of thought?

Can anyone recommed books that directly address the implementation
of TQM in a public sector organization?

Thanks

Steve Delph

Deputy Sheriff, Polk County Sheriff's Office
Bartow, FL. 


Message posting through the Clemson CQI Web Server.

==================================================================

Applying teamwork/Smalley

smalley@mwt.net (Dennis Smalley)

Tue, 17 Sep 1996 22:49:37 -0500

>We might take a moment to look at the kinds of behavior produced by
>competition and teamwork.
>
>        Teamwork                        Competition
>        Win-Win                         Win-Lose
>        Shared Information              Secretive
>        Working Together                Working for Self
>        Honest-Open Communications      Deceitful/Closed Communications
>        Trusting                        Suspicious
>        Trustworthy                     Untrustworthy
>        Collaboration                   Us Vs. Them Thinking
>        Synergy                         Turf Wars
>

I teach in a small rural high school in western wisconsin and one of my
classes is manufacturing.  I have been trying to run current manufacturing
technologies in my class curriculum, self managed work teams, demand flow
technology and try to tackle the quality issue,,,,,enough of the bio.
Robert Crow in his message above makes great sense to me and I can see how
a 10th grader can relate to this list when I present it to them as we start
to focus on teams and team work. I am also a coach and the listed teamwork
behaviors are what we all strive for in our teams on the field.  Thanks I
will use this info!!


**************************************
             _____________________
             ___|__=96=96______=96_____|___
^^^^^^^^^^^^^\_______________________|^^^^^^^
Some are on the river, and some are not.

Dennis Smalley
Westby, WI
smalley@mail.mwt.net   (home)
whsteced@mail.mwt.net (school)

            __and there's still time to change the road you're on........
         __/
      __/
   __/
__/ a stairway to heaven

=====================================================================

Re: Variation in education/Tribus

"Myron. Tribus" <104055.2663@CompuServe.COM>

17 Sep 96 23:46:05 EDT

Newman's proposal is very much like that in Outcomes Based Education (OBE) which
is a very sensible idea but has provoked such a reaction among the religious
right that no Superintendent dares even whisper 'OBE'.  William Spady,  the
originator and promoter of the concept has written a book "Outcome-Based
Education:  Critical issues and Answers", published by the AASA (1994) which
should be read by anyone who believes,  as I do,  and as Newman appears to do,
that this is a good idea.

Myron Tribus,  350 Britto Terrace,  Fremont, CA 94539
Ph:510 651 3641  Fax: 510 656 9875
There is no such thing as an immaculate perception
What you see depends on what you thought before you looked

=========================================================================

Re: A 'brush with death' needed?/Cooper

BCoop1116@aol.com

Tue, 17 Sep 1996 19:44:07 -0400

I agree on this subject but I am not sure about the brush with death
requirement.  I think that in many cases we do not give our senior managers
enough credit.  Having been one I found out that those we talk about today as
lacking leadership qualities for change today were out where we were
yesterday.  What happens???

It has been my experience that in order for the average CEO to want to adopt
something new two things must occurr.  One, he or she must understand it.  To
often we do not teach the senior executive about system and quality
improvements but we expect them to be the biggest advocates.  Deming was
right again when he said "how would they know???.  Second he or she must see
pay back in terms of the application of their most important commodity "
time".. 

In a film called the abiline paradox DR. Jerry Harvey made an interesting
observation about death.  Most people say we fear death because we dont
understand it.  He said we fear death because we do understand it.  He said
death is "the ultimate separation". Maybe that is what is the problem with
the lack of acceptance.  Most CEO"s understand what happens when they do not
meet all the outside goals such as stock price, short term earnings etc.
 They have watched their counterparts suffer the "ultimate separation" when
these are not met in the short term.  I think most of them are indeed
rational and understand "organizational death" more than care to admit.  They
talk system improvements and use all the buzz words they just don't believe
it will be good for them. 

 If we doubt this look at how many times people reorganize. They totally
change the people and titles and leave the same systems in place.  Guess
what; one two years down the road they have to do the same thing again to
give the illusion of progress.  I think they do this when they feel the
outside or inside pressure of "deaths door"..  

We don't need a brush with death to help organizations live.  We have to help
teach people the value of proper of purposeful actions in their
organizations.  Most executives I have met are good people who are willing to
do what is necessary to improve their organization and the output and service
levels.  What gets in the way is the pressures of the moment that drives all
executives.  We all have to continue to be that voice that says someone must
think about the future and what systems we must create to not become one more
member who came so close to a "brush with death, it got them in the
situational  vortex" and they disappeared. 

I enjoy all you folks comments.  I look forward to my daily reading when I am
in town.

Bill Cooper

===================================================================

Re: Deming Questions # 26/Taurman

ILX

Tue, 17 Sep 1996 14:48:49 -0500 (CDT)

COMMENT  et

26-1.   (No 51 in the Book) - Deming in a job shop

a)    Are your customers better satisfied now, one by one, than they were 
       two years ago? Why?
COMMENT  et
He may have asked this question because so many small company owners  did
and still do see the customer as the enemy not to be trusted and as trying
to take advantage of their company. He knew this attitude kept the job shop
from seeing and understanding what the customer really wanted. He was also
putting the responsibility on managers to know what the customer really
wanted and to interpret that want or need for the people in the shop. 

This particular question re-emphasized the importance of looking at data
over time rather than as discreet isolated events. He was asking them to
measure progress not absolute results while telling us to focus all our
people on serving the customer because that is all that counts.

Satisfying customer is one of the few long term stable purposes a company
can have> Focus on improving service to customers is one area most employees
can relate to and agree upon. Other purpose like improve profit or reduce
cast are not stable and not everyone can relate to them as we can we serving
the customer. 

b)   How about materials and equipment? How many suppliers have you for 
       any one type?
COMMENT  et
He asked this question because he saw buyers whose standard solution to any
complaint was change suppliers rather than focus on good communication with
a few. He saw and I still see companies have so many suppliers that it is
impossible to communicate with them. Impossible to communicate their known
needs much less their unknown needs. He saw suppliers that knew only price
made a difference so they did not try to serve the customer only.

c)   If more than one, why? What steps are you taking towards reduction? 

d)   How about maintenance of equipment: improving?

COMMENT  et
He is telling us to recognize that all the parts of the system must improve
overtime if we are to be viable companies. Maintenance is and was often
neglected often with the wrong focus. Frequently it was conformance to
budget rather than how well they prevented breakdowns. The scourge of plants
is unscheduled events and few companies have effective measurement of
maintenance rate of improving this area.  

He also wanted us to recognize the interconnection of maintenance with total
cost. Labor cost and indirect cost cannot be low unless all machines work
right all the time.

e)   How about performance on the job?

COMMENT  et
I believe he was driving us to realize that results of every process (direct
and indirect) should be measured and the rate of improvement is more
important than the absolute value. This also ties into is ideas about
constancy of purpose. The only completely stable purpose is improving what
we do. Most other purpose become obsolete this way he could have stable
purpose and change at the same time.

f)   How about your turnover rate?
COMMENT  et
Deming saw turnover rate as an indicator of a plant's stability. Of the
employment level was not stable then it could not possibly improve their
process but would forever be busy retraining .not improving. 

g)   What about repeated operations that do not change with the product: do 
       you keep a running record and a control chart of some of them?
COMMENT  et
He recognized that only value added operations were paid or by the customer.
He also recognized that more cost is in the non value added operations such
as expediting, rework moving material etc. than in the actual work of
drilling a hole. He wanted us to focus on the complete system because for so
long we improved hole drilling time with out managing the other support costs. 

h)   Are some of your problems stable? If yes, where lies the responsibility 
      for improvement? (With the management.)

COMMENT et
He was driving at the point, we must change the process if we are to change
the output, which he often measured in quality characteristics. He wanted us
to realize that the process known and unknown are the responsibility of
managers and only they can change the methods. That is the point of good
problem solving, when the system is broken do not change it, fix it.  Know
which is the problem,  Is it broken? or Does it need to be changed?  He
showed us one way to make to make that distinction with the use of control
charts and statistics so we could fix the right part of the system.

I recently was caught in a system that consistently produced bad parts. It
was stable but bad. It took a long time to realize that no one in the system
understood how to run the system and we needed knowledge of the system to
even recognize where it was broken it was broken and the system was wrong .
Most confusing thank God for control charts to help understand. 

Most often behind every broken machine r tool is a process that need to be
change to keep the machine in good repair. 

26-2.   (No 52 in the Book) - Understanding the concept of Training

a)  Do your people that are engaged in training understand when an 
     employee is trained and when he is not yet trained?  

b)  Do they know that they have only one chance? That an employee once 
     trained can not be helped by further training in the same procedures?

COMMENT et
He was referring to a fact of dealing with people, referred by we peasants
as "You can't teach an old dog new tricks" Since that is true we must study
our training process and be certain it is delivering the right concepts. He
was also pointing out the most learning about company policy is learned from
the peer group not from the policy manual or classes or meetings with the
supervisor.  So take heart and study the teaching and learning process and
teach them right the first time.

We see the neglect of this fact every time we try to improve shop
performance on even such little items as when and how long a break should
be. The supervisors have learned they do not get support form management if
they attempt to correct the bad habit. The workers have been taught it is ok
to extend breaks. It is tough to change, so teach even simple things right
the first time.

Eugene Taurman
interLinx
ilx@execpc.com
http://www.execpc.com/~ilx

========================================================================

Re: MBTI/Crow and others

BCoop1116@aol.com

Tue, 17 Sep 1996 18:22:49 -0400

This issue of various tests and labeling techniques is very interesting to
me.  It seems again that we may not understand variation if we say some one
is a "estp" or what ever the category might be and then say they are that in
all conditions and situations.

I went to become certified to be able to give the MBTI and I found it very
interesting that people were told not to "flaunt their style".  As soon as I
heard that I realized that there were some styles better than others, at
least in the instructors perception.  In our culture people had much rather
be an "extrovert rather than an introvert".  Most people outwardly would
rather be a  "feeling human being rather than cold thinking person".  Most
people would rather be "perceived as perceptive rather than judgemental".  

I think this debate is about the same one we would find over any set of test,
instruments or what ever you want to call them that attempts to place us in
some ticky tacky little box.
Deming was right when he said "some numbers are unknown and unknowable"  He
could have said all of us human beings are incapable of being typed as one
thing or another.  It all depends! 

Having said that I do however think that there is a place for this type of
instrument to be used in management training.  It can be used, as is a
control chart, for prediction.  It is not necessarily the answer but is an
indicator about possible future actions.  Notice I did not say performance.
 I think any kind of instrument that allows us as humans to help understand
ourselves is good for all around us.  It has been proven many times that the
leaders who best understands themselves are the one's who are the most
respected, and followed, by others.  

I still think the "Blanchard Situation leadership model" is one of the best.
 It allows us to be many things depending on the situation.  I like that.  I
am not as concerned about consistency as I am about fairness.  I want to be
able to look at each situation as I find it and operate on the requirements
that the situation may require.  I would much rather do it that way than say
" oh well I am an introvert so they want expect me to do what ever".. I do
not like things that limit us and our capacity to meet challenges.  I think
we can do better when we bring our education, compassion, and understanding
situtionally than we can when we try to put some metaphor, label or numeric
criteria on our action.  

The map is not the territory.  In we humans it is only a outside description
of what may be found if we look inside of those we come in contact with.  I
want to meet each person and let my interaction with them determine the
outcome of some social intercourse rather than letting a label bias my
thinking.  

Bill Cooper

==========================================================================

MBTI/Ballard

john_ballard@mail.msj.edu

Tue, 17 Sep 96 16:26:57 EST

        I know of no PHD educated psychometricians who recommend the MBTI.
        Last time I checked Burros Mental Measurement Yearbook the MBTI had
        reliabilities of .15 - .25, much too low for any personnel work. 
        Use of the MTBI-  beyond just getting you thinking about how you see
        the world - would not appear to be prudent. Several years ago I 
        directed all personnel testing for the U.S. Air Force.  I did not
        allow use of the MBTI.

        John B.

==========================================================================

Re. Quality.../IMKINI

IMKINI@usthk.ust.hk

Wed, 18 Sep 1996 15:06:55 +0800

(To The Moderator
Deming Electronic Network.
Hi,
I don't normally contribute to DEN, but given the recent discussions =
on=20
DEN under numerous threads, "Quality & stakeholders," "Quality define=
d=20
by customer expectations," "Customer & long term thinking," "Quality =
&=20
managers," etc., I thought I should pitch in with my own two bits'=
=20
worth.
Thanks
Ramesh Kini)

While it is widely acknowledged that quality is a powerful competitiv=
e=20
weapon that can be leveraged to great advantage by forward looking=
=20
managers, it has remained, as Garvin (1988) put it, "an unusually=
=20
slippery concept, easy to visualize and yet exasperatingly difficult =
to=20
define." Hence, it is appropriate that we should ask ourselves at the=
=20
outset,=20
*=09"What is Quality...?," as Phaedrus did in Pirsig (1981), along
=09with two other questions that are just as critical, viz.,
*=09"What is the Product?," and=20
*=09"Who is the Consumer of--or Customer for--the Product and/or
=09Quality?"
=09Firstly, should the emphasis be more on functionality of the=20
product, i.e., on what it was meant or designed to do, and what it=
=20
actually does for the consumer, than on its form or its features, etc=
.?=20
Thus the small cigar-shaped Nicorette inhaler recently launched by th=
e=20
U.S.-Swedish drug company Pharmacia & Upjohn, may be very similar, fo=
r=20
instance, to some of the company's other products, e.g., Nicorette=
=20
chewing gum, patches and nasal spray, in that they are all based on t=
he=20
same principles, and were intended to have the same effect, i.e., to=
=20
help users quit smoking. Yet, the products do differ in terms of desi=
gn=20
quality, i.e., vis-=88-vis form, features, and how effectively each w=
as=20
designed to perform, and in terms of conformance quality, i.e., how=
=20
well each conforms to "spec." or its actual effectiveness in helping=
=20
users to quit smoking, which may depend more on user- and context-
specific, than on product-specific, factors.
=09To avoid sounding very academic, and to ensure that the=20
discussion does not take on a very arcane, atarimae hinshitsu vs.=
=20
miryokuteki hinshitsu-type flavor, let us embed what follows in the=
=20
context of an example drawn from the real world. Assume that the task=
=20
on hand is to analyze the tradeoffs involved in designing a diagnosti=
c=20
or screening test for an infectious disease, say, AIDS.
=09The screening test has two design quality dimensions, viz., its=
=20
sensitivity (the 98% probability that a HIV-positive subject is=20
correctly diagnosed as having the disease) and specificity (the 99%=
=20
probability that a HIV-negative subject is correctly diagnosed as=
=20
disease-free), that are more relevant for the firm and more within it=
s=20
purview than the two conformance quality dimensions associated with t=
he=20
cases in which the subject is misdiagnosed and hence used by him/her =
to=20
judge the test. The latter are the false negative and false positive=
=20
probabilities (respectively, the probability that a subject who tests=
=20
negative has the disease, or that he/she is disease-free despite a=
=20
positive test) with values--obtained using Bayes' Law--equal to=20
0.0000038 and 0.9821, respectively. On the face of it, it would seem=
=20
that the false negative probability is negligible enough to be ignore=
d,=20
and that test ought to be made more specific because of an unacceptab=
ly=20
high false positive probability. Also, the false positive (negative)=
=20
problem vanishes for a perfectly specific (sensitive) test, but the=
=20
false negative (respectively, positive) probability is only marginall=
y=20
lower.
=09While perfect products (in this case, a perfectly specific=20
and/or sensitive screening test) are either impossible to design=20
(because of conflicting objectives) or, if they do exist on paper, ar=
e=20
abjectly unaffordable, a firm can still strive to design and build a=
=20
"better mousetrap" that most of us would rather have at a reasonable=
=20
price, than the "best damned mouse trap" that only the Sultan of=20
Brunei, say, can afford. Given that firms seek to maximize profits=
=20
subject to some limit on the up-front investment in design and=20
development, and that a product has to be acceptable (vis-=88-vis=
=20
reasonable performance standards) and affordable to succeed=20
commercially, we should expect most available products to be imperfec=
t,=20
more so in some aspects than in others. Designing quality into=20
products, thus, always involves compromises and the firm has to decid=
e=20
on which dimension to compromise and to what extent.
=09In keeping with Deming's principles, however, the firm should=20
continue striving to improve its product and process--to do so, the=
=20
firm would have to understand the nature of the relevant trade-offs=
=20
entailed, and that would depend substantially on the consumer being=
=20
correctly identified. Here the "consumer" could be a blood bank,=20
hospital, clinic or agency that procures, requisitions and administer=
s=20
the test; or the subject being screened (whether volitionally or=20
otherwise); or the recepient(s) of processed blood products if the=
=20
subject is a blood donor, and/or his/her spouse or sexual partner(s)=
=20
otherwise (who, like the subject, may not be informed about the outco=
me=20
despite being as significantly affected by it as him/her); or society=
=20
as a whole (the government's agencies, e.g., the F.D.A., C.D.C., etc.=
,=20
seek to protect the interests of society at large, by influencing the=
=20
specifications drawn up for the test, its approval, licensing and=
=20
manufacturing, and its use, in general).
=09Redesigning such tests would depend on which probability (false-
negative or -positive) is more critical and by what yardstick, and on=
=20
which relevant costs (out-of-pocket or notional) are borne, when, and=
=20
by whom? Testing positive can be (temporarily) traumatic for a subjec=
t=20
who is disease-free and his/her family members in the short run. In=
=20
most instances, more specific follow-up tests would very likely revea=
l=20
the subject to be disease-free. The costs borne by the unduly=20
"alarmed," misdiagnosed subject and his/her family members are not=
=20
significant, and hence can be deemed as "bearable." On the other hand=
,=20
misdiagnosing a HIV-positive subject as being disease-free, can be=
=20
risky, dangerous and in fact downright lethal for the recepient(s) of=
=20
processed blood products if the subject is a blood donor, and/or=20
his/her spouse/sexual partner(s), to whom the disease would, in all=
=20
likelihood, be transmitted, and who, in turn, could volens nolens=
=20
jeopardize others in the long run. In most cases, a second test that=
=20
would reveal the subject to be HIV-positive would come too late to ma=
ke=20
a difference. Analogous to letting the genie out of the bottle, once=
=20
the damage is done it is almost impossible to undo. It is the=20
enormously high cost of a false negative to society (the "real"=20
consumer of information provided by the test) that makes it imperativ=
e=20
for a screening test for an infectious disease to be designed to have=
=20
as small a false negative probability as possible (even if this=20
approach neglects to reduce the false positive probability).
References:
Garvin, David, Managing Quality--The Strategic and Competitive Edge,=
=20
1988, The Free Press, N.Y.
Pirsig, Robert, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, 1981.

=====================================================================

Re: Variation in education/Monroe

PHILHOOVER@aol.com

Wed, 18 Sep 1996 14:12:55 -0400

Julie Beedon, a marvelous contributor to the DEN writes, "I have a 
great deal of sympathy with Roberts wrestling with the
amount of variation we want in the output of education - who wants
the system to produce a set of clones???  Yet we do want the system
to provide some equality of opportunity - and my sense is that the
measures for that are rooted in process not in output - but I am
ready to be challenged on this... "

Her question, "Who wants the system to produce a set of clones???"
brings me right to outcomes, vision, and theory.  A few years ago
a hot book in the education circles was, "The Learning Gap."  Some
researchers tested 2nd and 5th grade students in America and in
Oriental countries.  Test results were "even" in the 2nd grade, by 
the 5th grade the oriental children were significantly ahead.  
The authors then tried to identify, "Why?"

The above phrase, "Oriental children were significantly ahead" 
requires interpretation.  They found the American spread contained
wider variation, and a lower average.  Oriental children had a 
narrower range, and higher average.  The oriental schools worked
hard for standardization, and felt the national good was better
served with a higher overall average.  Their process had the
"more brilliant" students help the others to learn, thereby not
only learning better what they knew, but they also developed many
good social skills.  They didn't assign A, B, and C reading groups with
the A group getting 2,000 words to read at night, the B group 
getting 1,000 words, and the C group getting 500 words.  (That
process only increases the variation.  I ask, "Why do we give 
less skilled students less work?")  In oriental schools all 
had the same assignment and the faster readers  helped the 
slower readers to learn.  

In America, we create gifted classes, separate the "brilliant"
and perceive that having them help others will hold them back.  
They won't achieve their full potential we seem to reason.   
Robert Bacal recently wrote to the high end issue as, 
"The  only way to reduce  the variance is to deprive 
the more able from more education, while bringing up the
level of the less able."  Thus, we put into place processes
that increase the variation of the outcome.  
We also have more students on the low end, and I guess we 
let society handle that situation with welfare. .


It goes back to theory. Is your theory that our country is better 
served  by greater variation, lower average, and the gifted 
given a track to fully develop during the education years, or
would we be better off with a higher overall average, less
people on the low end because of extra learning help, and yes
a few less at the very high end.  Julie, I'm not sure that 
makes "clones", but I think there are gains that we should
consider.

Phil Monroe
PhilHoover@aol.com

========================================================================

Outcome Based Education/Monroe

PHILHOOVER@aol.com

Wed, 18 Sep 1996 14:12:44 -0400

About a year ago I posted the DEN on Outcome Based Education
and Variation.  Myron Tribus seemed to like it and we re-
introduced ourselves off line.  Given the recent posts and
the fact that we have new members in the DEN, I thought a 
replay might be in order.

There have been a number of answers to the question, "What is
outcome based education?" (OBE)  Most say it is a bad idea,
the kind people say it is maybe good in theory but creates
havoc in practice.  Maybe we should look at what we have
today.
We teach about 180 days a year, 7 periods a day, with a
pretty much set curriculum and delivery style.  There is
little variation.  What we allow to vary in that system
are student grades.  They are awarded an A,B,C,D,E, or F
depending on test scores and teacher evaluations of how
they do in the fixed system.  I think it was Russ Ackoff
who described this system as designed according to the
theory of Fredrick Taylor, breaking things down to small
parts.  Then he added, "We are using a 19th century theory,
to teach 20th century children, how to live in the 21st
century."
Outcome based education will not accept variation in
minimum learning achieved.  It defines learning levels
that must be achieved before completing a course.  In this
theory, the phrase,  "I completed 2nd year Algebra
and received a "C" in the course" will be replaced.  We will
know that if a student completed 2nd year Algebra, they 
will be proficient in quadratic equations, simultaneous
equations, complex numbers, and the like.  Variation will
not be permitted in minimum levels of learning.  The
variation will be in class time, days and hours in school,
and teaching methods to hit all learning modalities.
Of course this will cause chaos in teaching methods,
length of classroom periods, the responsibilities on the
teacher, union contacts, living styles, et. al.

As Deming often said, "Variation there will always be."
With education we will have to choose whether we want
the variation to be in learning achieved, or in teaching.

Phil Monroe
PhilHoover@aol.com

=========================================================================

Re: Learning fixed, time variable/Monroe

PHILHOOVER@aol.com

Wed, 18 Sep 1996 14:12:39 -0400

Tom Harris recently wrote:
"Mike Neuman pretty well hit the nail on the head when he espoused
making learning fixed and time variable.  I have been a proponent of
that process for at least 20 years and thought that I was almost
alone in my proposal."

Well Tom, you are not alone!  I highly recommend the Report by the National
Education Commission on Time and Learning titled, "Prisoners of Time" dated
April 1994.  It is powerful and argues that time must be variable inorder for
everyone to achieve required learning levels.  My copy indicates it is for
sale by the U.S. Government Printing Office, Superintendent of Documents,
Mail Stop: SSOP, Washington DC  20402-9328.

In the forward they write, "Our conclusions and recommendations speak for
themselves.  Time is the missing element in our great national debate about
learning and the need for higher standards for all students.  Our schools and
the people involved with them - students, teachers, administrators, parents,
and staff - are prisoners of time, captives of the school clock and calendar.
 We have been asking the impossible of our students - that they learn as much
as their foreign peers while spending only half as much time in core academic
subjects.  The reform movement of the last decade is destined to founder
unless it is harnessed to more time for learning."

=========================================================================

Re: Variation in education/Newman

Downstrm@aol.com

Wed, 18 Sep 1996 11:56:12 -0400

I agree with your comments, but would like to go one step farther.  My
definition of the system of education includes not only the students and the
teaching process, but also includes the world environment(particularly home
life) each particular individual within the system is subjected to.  In my
opinoin this makes for an unbelievably complex system to work on improving.
 Unfortunately in my area it seems that most people working on the
educational process do not recognize the entire system or if they do, try to
ignore it because of it's complexity.  Their focus is that the education
process can overcome all the issues driven by the larger system.

Re: MBTI/Harris

Thomas Harris

18 Sep 96 09:40:16 CDT

From:

Concerning the MBTI, I think that I have to agree with Mr. Cooper.  It
appears to me that we don't have only one personality.  We have as many
personalities as we know people; i.e., our personality is defined by
others, not ourself.  We tend to exhibit those personality traits that
we think the other person would like to have us exhibit.

IF that's the case, it just could be that when we sit down to take
the MBTI, we're answering the questions with the test-giver (or
some other person who might read the results) in mind, therefore, we
answer the questions with that personality in mind.

Another thing that pops into my mind when I hear MBTI or other
instruments like it is, "How did we survive so long without these
instruments?"  They've only come about in the last 50-100 years and
we all know that the enterprising process is much older than that.

I agree with Mr. Cooper and others that these types of instruments
tend to pigeon-hole individuals who, lacking other knowledge, tend to
play the role given them.  There are only a finite number of possibilities
with the MBTI.  Does that mean that all humans fall into one of those
16 categories?  Don't think so.

Whatever.

Tom Harris

Tom Harris, Ph. D., Prof. Bus. Mgt.
St. Philip's College
1801 M. L. King Blvd.
San Antonio, TX 78231
Voice 210-531-3494
"Continual improvement involving everyone"
...Imai

========================================================================

Deming is alive and well/Taurman

ILX

Wed, 18 Sep 1996 09:40:12 -0500 (CDT)

Ramblings and reaction to comments on why Deming groups do not grow. 

I believe Deming's philosophy is alive and well and ever expanding its grip
on the minds of mangers.

In part it's just that each of us who encounter it give it a new  name. Some
are learning and do not even know Deming is the source of their management
knowledge  Others are learning a piece at a time. Others are seeing the
wrong way to manage and hearing the message and recognizing the value and
waiting for a time to try.

I had pursued, observed and practiced  Deming's management concepts for 7
years ('79 to '86) before I realized the root source of the ideas as Deming.
To me it was  Japanese management that made sense. But I was interested
because the top management in y company clearly did not know how to run a
company and obtain results even close to those I had seen in Japan.  I am
certainly not the only one who learned by observation of results rather than
books or seminars or who is unable to express an academic understanding.

The entire movement to new management methods is a tribute to him even if
the credit is not always given to him. Even if some of the uses are partial
and misguided. An associate has listed the names of many of the names used
to describe what managers are trying that can find roots in his ideas. It
filled single spaced page and it is not even complete. 

The person who said it is necessary to use the whole concept not pieces to
obtain the benefit is right. People using parts of his ideas by any of the
many names are learning a piece at a time and will eventually discover how
all the pieces fit together. 
Frustrating as that may be many will get there and add improvements on their
own.
 
Many are like blotters soaking it up and getting it all backwards and will
make their companies worse.

This Deming discussion group tends to be scholarly or academic and that may
be a reason it does not grow as much as the ideas have spread. Plus there
are well established organization such as ASQC that are becoming the drivers
for the ideas.

Many  shop foreman would be turned off by these discussions but many shop
foremen understand the ideas very well and can apply them very very well.

ASQC, AME,  and other organizations are showing people a piece at a time how
to get there.  Managers want to buy solutions and parts of the Deming ideas
can be purchased. I believe as they buy more parts they will come to see the
whole picture of the Deming concepts. It could be less painful and more
successful but that is the way it is going.

Deming concepts are alive and well in the minds of thousands.

Eugene Taurman
interLinx
ilx@execpc.com
http://www.execpc.com/~ilx

=========================================================================

Re: Variation in education/Tribus

"Myron. Tribus" <104055.2663@CompuServe.COM>

18 Sep 96 21:35:58 EDT

Taurman is right on target.   This is why I am so excited by the work of
Feuerstein.  It promises to change the system drastically.  The sharpness of the
change in paradigm is the biggest barrier.

Myron Tribus

=============================================================================

Re: TQM applications within Law Enforcement Organizations

"Myron. Tribus" <104055.2663@CompuServe.COM>

18 Sep 96 21:35:56 EDT

I am not up to date on application of quality in law enforcement.   Some years
ago I was impressed with the work of the Chief of Police in Madison,  Wisconsin.
You might ask the folks at MAQIN to comment on the current status.  The Chief
retired a couple of years ago.  Write to Barbar Hummel:  bhummel@maqin.org

I also was involved for a short while with the police department in Sussex,
England.

I suspect there are quite a few departments involved in quality but I no longer
have a useful data base.

As to the lack of a profit motive,  this does not seem to count for much.  I
have worked with several sets of civil servants and almost uniformly I find they
want to do a good job.   It depends on leadership.   You can learn more on this
front by dropping a line to Joe Sensenbrenner,  former Mayor of Madison,  under
whose leadership the original work in the police department was done.  You can
reach Joe at:  joesense@mailbag.com

Myron Tribus,  350 Britto Terrace,  Fremont, CA 94539
Ph:510 651 3641  Fax: 510 656 9875
There is no such thing as an immaculate perception
What you see depends on what you thought before you looked

========================================================================

Re: A 'brush with death' needed?/Tribus

"Myron. Tribus" <104055.2663@CompuServe.COM>

18 Sep 96 21:35:53 EDT

Once I advised Deming:  "Do not eliminate fear.  Scoop it all up and put it in
the front office."
Myron Tribus

=========================================================================

Quality...IMKINI/Tribus

"Myron. Tribus" <104055.2663@CompuServe.COM>

18 Sep 96 21:35:50 EDT

This posting raises a number of good questions (not the least of which is how to
take information from a word-processor and post it without all the formatting
characters showing up in the posting!).

[Moderator's note - Ramesh *did* send a corrected message, but the first one
had already made it to the DEN.     Jim Clauson ]

The Quality Management Center in Cambridge, MA was the source of this
distinction which can be used to clear up some of the questions raised in the
posting:

Q = q + c + d

Quality "big Q" is composed of q (little q) the quality of the product or
service,  c,  the cost and d, the delivery.  It is a mistake to consider only q
as determining Q.

q in turn is made up of 'features' and 'quality'

Features are the things you put into the product to appeal to a customer.
quality is concerned with how well you deliver the features.

It is always helpful to keep in mind that when you ask a question you should
have a pretty good idea of what you will do when you get the answer.  Sometimes
people just want to know and if you have the information on hand,  it is no
trouble to provide the answer.   But if you have to go to an effort to get the
answer,  then before you spend the time and effort,  you should know what you
will do with the answer.  (Once I angered a fellow board member on a company
board of directors.  He wanted me to tell him what the programmers did with
their time.   I asked him,  "After you know,  then what will you do with the
information?"  Ultimately he had to leave the board!   Moral:  Be careful how
you use this perspective.)

Returning to the issue of defining q:  If we look into the processes inside the
company,  we will want to discuss the quality of the product of the several
processes inside the overall process.

Specifically,  we can look at the output of the design department.  It is useful
to judge the design by how many features it contains that are useful to the
customer and how the design influences cost.

When we look at the output of the manufacturing process,  we do not consider the
features of the design,  as this has little to do with the quality of
manufacture.  We can inquire if the manufacturing process uses tools and
techniques which make it harder for design to control cost.  This is what cross
functional management is all about.

Cost is made up of many attributes.  Economic cost is but one.   Effort to use
is another.  Or,  as in the posting,  quantity of blood that must be given.

Myron Tribus,  350 Britto Terrace,  Fremont, CA 94539
Ph:510 651 3641  Fax: 510 656 9875
There is no such thing as an immaculate perception
What you see depends on what you thought before you looked

=========================================================================

RE: Dr. Deming - Info needed/Kerr

"Kerr, Donald"

Wed, 18 Sep 1996 14:12:00 -0700

 ----------
From: Kerr, Donald
To: CarrilloG@aol.com; Deming Network
Subject: RE: Dr. Deming
Date: Wednesday, September 18, 1996 1:42PM

Dear DENzians,

Ms. Carrillo asked me for a personal interview about Dr. Deming for her
MBA.  I told her how brilliant all of you were on the DEN and that she
would benefit more from hearing perspectives from all of you.  She  has
less then six weeks for research so I figured the DEN could help her get
great results fast.

Please send your comments directly to her a CarilloG@aol.com.  If you
have any Internet material or sites that will help, I'm sure she would
appreciate it.

Thank you very much,
Don Kerr
 ----------
From: CarrilloG@aol.com
To: Kerr, Donald
Subject: Dr. Deming
Date: Wednesday, September 18, 1996 1:21PM

Don, I am looking for answers/comments to the following questions about
Dr. Deming.  If possible, please elaborate on each of them.

1.- Who was Dr. Deming --  Where was he born?  Where did he go to
school? Who
were his parents? etc... (Biography)

2.- What are the most important contributions of Dr. Deming?

3.- How have his contributions affected the past and how have they
affected
the present?

4.- How did he get to be who he was?  How did all happen? How did he get
the
AHA! that inspired his contributions?

I am writing a paper for my MBA class on Dr. Deming as one of the most
important management pioneers of this century. I will use the
answers/comments I get as references.  I think it will be more
interesting
that way.

I thank you beforehand for all the help you can give me.
======================================================================

Re: TQM applications within Law Enforcement Organizations/Taurman

ILX

Wed, 18 Sep 1996 15:05:23 -0500 (CDT)

>My question is, what is the motive for public sector agencies 
>to adapt and implement these new management philosophoes?
>
>My thinking is that the only pressure or motivation to change
>would be to keep your elected position or would be to receive
>increased funding.  Is this a proper direction of thought?
>
>
>Steve Delph
>
>Deputy Sheriff, Polk County Sheriff's Office
>Bartow, FL. 


REPLY AND COMMENTS

Deming's idea apply to any organization.

Deming told us to determine the purpose of the organization
Focus all the energy on that purpose. 

Measure how well the processes used in the organization serves it's
customers , i.e. meets it's purpose.   He told us to use mistakes and errors
to guide our actions to improve the process. He said this is management only
job. No matter what they do now. Their job is to make the processes work
better. He told us to measure deviation from perfect and try to get there.

Measure the rate of improvement of the processes used.  That can only be
done if we know where we are going and how to measure.

Hew said to use statistics to measure over time deviation form perfect and
the rate of errors the system produces.

Define problems well . A problem can not be solved until it is defined and
agreed upon by the group. Both that it is a problem and that this is the problem

He told us unless you can measure the problem you can not solve it.

He told us to drive out fear and politics by focus on the problem not the
person.

He told us the real action is at the worker level and if you want to know
what is happening you must lean to measure at the level. Not just macro
measures but .

He told us to spend some part of every day making the system work better.

DOES THIS SOUND LIKE WHAT YOUR INSTRUCTOR IS SAYING?


AN EXAMPLE:

In our local police department, a couple of  cops did not stop a killing.
They were  fired to appease the mob mentality.  In a Deming organization we
would have meet with them and others to determine how it could be handled
better.

If our police force  had been able to stop talking about fault and who to
blame and focus on how the process should work, that is use  errors and
mistakes to guide the training we could have made the department better. In
stead we made other cops more fearful of being honest and of the jobs.
			
They made  a blooper but instead of learning they chops heads. Now we have
to train two more to be sacrificed later. 
Eugene Taurman
interLinx
ilx@execpc.com
http://www.execpc.com/~ilx

=======================================================================

MBTI & pickup trucks/Clauson

Jim Clauson

Thu, 19 Sep 1996 02:38:26 -0400 (EDT)

For those that do not know, I live in East Tennessee; in a relatively 
rural area near the Smokey Mountains.  I teach primarily in-plant 
courses in an 8 county area for a community college, often piloting my 
58 MPG Metro 500 +/- miles a week.

The vast majority of my students/customers/clients drive pickup 
trucks.  They are always asking why I do not have a pickup truck like 
everyone else (a proposed requirement for TN citizenship, I believe).  
I explain that I have no real use for a truck; preferring a 
high-mileage compact.  We joke about it, but neither side gets 
judgemental...  and I do not think the label 'truck driver'
pidgeon-holes them...

Perhaps Metros and MBTI have something in common.  Perhaps they each 
have usefulness in a *given* context.  Perhaps neither is appropriate 
in all situations (try hauling a 1/2 ton of manure in a Metro...).  If 
Metros and trucks can co-exist, perhaps the proponents and the 
detractors of MBTI can as well.

Just a thought.

BTW - for Bill:  I will be in DC for the Institute Conference -- wearing
my "I'm an ENTP... and You're Not!!" T-shirt...  ;-)

**************> Moderator, Deming Electronic Network <***************
* Jim Clauson, Director              Phone     (W): +1 423 882 4611 *
* Quality Training Programs          Phone/FAX (H): +1 423 717 0250 *
* Center for Quality & Innovation    clauson@deming.ces.clemson.edu *
* Roane State Community College      jrclauson@deming.org           *
* Harriman, TN 37748-5011            clauson_jr@a1.rscc.cc.tn.us    *
******************> Primary Listowner, TQM-L <***********************

=====================================================================

Introducing SPC/Crow

James Robert Crow

Wed, 18 Sep 96 09:21:17 EDT

Another method of introducing SPC to a group is to have a number of
participants, I would suggest at least 10, line up in front of the room
facing the group.  Ask them to give you their height in inches.  You can
rearrange them by height, ie. tallest to shortest, random heights, the
tallest in the middle with people tapering off on either side, etc..  You
can at each time they are rearranged do a bar chart, a run chart, a
histogram to demonstrate to the group how the arrangement of the people
affects the way the chart looks, and which type of chart would be most
appropriate to display that data.  You can also do a control chart to
determine average height, and the kind of variation within the group.  This
will involve the group in the learning process, and they can see that there
is normal variation within the group.  You could use weight, but with adults
some are sensitive in this area.


Robert Crow,            The Crow Group
jr1crow@mindspring.com, Continual Improvement
Voice (770) 461-1177,   Optimization of the System
FAX   (770) 461-1177,   Focusing Organizational Energy
250 Thornton Drive,	Motivating Work Environments
Fayetteville, GA 30214

======================================================================

Re: Learning fixed, time variable/Sanger

Colston Sanger

Wed, 18 Sep 1996 12:23:24 +0100 (BST)

> But this is now and less than 2 percent of the US population makes
> its living on the farm nowadays.  So why do we still cling to the
> old agricultural format?  ...

Thomas makes an interesting and insightful comment which had
never occured to me before and is `obviously' true.

And the rest of the educational year is structured around the Christian
calendar - Christmas, Easter and so forth. I forget what the
Oxford year is like - as I remember their academic year is
structured as four terms (semesters in America?), again named (I
think!) after the stages of the Christian cycle of birth,
transformation and regeneration - Hilary, Lent and so forth.

Now...given that in learning there needs to be a time for
activity and a time for reflection and relaxation, what would the
school year look like if *it was structured according to the
learning cycle*?

Regards,

Colston Sanger
-- 
Email: colston@gid.co.uk                    GID Limited             
Tel/Fax: 01428 605113                       Shottersley Institute
                                            Little Shottersley    
                                            Farnham Lane
                                            Haslemere
                                            Surrey GU27 1HA, UK
==================================================================

Svar: MBTI/ThorsenLind

Marie-Louise.ThorsenLind@NOTIS.postnet.se

Wed, 18 Sep 96 04:30:06 EDT

     I feel that this is an important point!
     I think we need a deeper discussion about how to use Psychological=

     tests, Typology etc..

     Some organisations use such instruments both to identify those who=

     have desired abilities and those who haven't.
     The worst case that I've read about concerned British (?) companie=
s
     who tried to use Psychometrics to decide who to make redundant.

     Psychological tests were not designed to terrorise people, but can=
 be
     used in that way. They were not designed to show people their
     limitations, to make them know when it's no use to go for personal=

     development or, as Robert writes, to rob them of their humanity.

     But these tools are being used in such a way in my country too. On=
 top
     of that some of the psychometric tools on the market are of doubtf=
ul
     quality and yet being bought by obviously well intending managers.=

     That might however be another problem.

     /Marie-Louise Thors=E9n Lind
     The Swedish Employers Confederation
     marie-louise.thors=E9nlind@SAF.se


______________________________Svarsavskiljare _________________________=

Re: SPC & culture change/taurman

ILX

Wed, 18 Sep 1996 09:20:08 -0500 (CDT)

At 10:58 AM 9/16/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I would like to add my comment about SPC implementation within an
>organization.  In my opinion the first place to start SPC is with the
>President of the company.  If the top people in the organization are not
>using statistics to help them make decisions at their level the mistakes they
>will make in determining direction for the whole company will greatly out
>weigh any improvements you can make in manufacturing.  Remember it wasn't the
>tellers fault that the bank went out of business.  

MR. NEWMAN 

YOU ARE RIGHT ON. 

In aadition to the workers not being able to justifiy expense because of the
CEO & CFO not understanding there is another issue.

Culture is driven by the questions the CEO asks. If the CEO trains the
workers in SPC and  or all of Deming and then continues to ask the same old
questions and make decisions the same old way the culture will not change.
If the content of the staff meeting changes so managers spend their time
getting ready to answer the right questions at the next staff meeting the
culture will change. Other wise it will not. (In  very large companies there
may be pockets of change.)

The most powerful chnage mechanism is the staff meeting content and the
questions asked by the person incharge. (As Mr. Newman said tran the CEO and
CFO)

Mr Cooper addresed the pressurs on the Manager that keep him form adopting
new bettter mehtods. he is right but the solution is for the CEO to change
the content of staff meetings so new pressures exist for the manger ro show
understaning and progress.

It is really that simple and that is the reason Deming would not deal with
anyoneother than the man incharge.

E Taurman a former CEO

Eugene Taurman
interLinx
ilx@execpc.com
http://www.execpc.com/~ilx

===========================================================================

re: Learning fixed, time variable/Nimon

"harry nimon"

Wed, 18 Sep 96 7:18:58 CDT

Nice to hear from a fellow Texan...

I would like to add a by-word to your comments on the educational process.  
I hear in your comments a cry for year-round schooling.  First, I believe 
that, as WED stated, "Train to a statistical control and maintain it..." is 
the same as what you are expounding upon.  The trouble is, too many times 
the administrations answer the need for "...not making the poorer students 
feel bad..." is by decreasing the standards.  By definition, one sigma of 
the population should register in the "C" category.  If they do not, then 
the standards are set too low.  

For years, the military has tried to focus on an evaluation scheme that 
would not self-inflate. They have consistantly failed.  The reason for the 
failure is the refusal to accept that the "norm" of any process is a 
statistical curve.  WED stated, concerning evaluation criteria, that there 
should only be three measures: did not meet standard, met standard, 
exceeded standard.  If too many exceed standard, change the standard upward,
 never downward.  If too few fail to achieve standard; examine the process, 
not the standard.

Back to Y-R-S; this was originally presented to the population (customer) 
as a)cheaper, b) better and c) more efficient.  After two years of it here 
in our school district, we have returned to the traditional calendar 
because: a) it was more expensive, b) students were burning out (kids need 
to be kids, not machines...) and c) test scores did NOT improve, and in 
fact, decreased.  The turmol it caused in families and community simply was 
not worth the effort, yet the school board continues to push the voters 
through scare tactics to try to reinstitute the program.  Their paradigm is 
that, "This will work because we are PhD educators and we know what the 
population really wants..."  Remember General Motors stating in the 60's, 
"We are in business to make cars, not satisfy customers..."

Too many times, pet projects are not reviewed objectively.  Standards of 
performance are not set and measured.  Vague phrases like "less costly, " 
"more efficient," etc. are thrown around like confetti with as much value.  
When actual targets are stated (i.e. We will achieve a 15% decrease in 
school operating costs with the year-round program...), there is always an 
excuse for not meeting standard (i.e. The 18% cost overrun was caused by 
unforeseen weather and maintenance issues....).

Stating "...MUST BE SUCCESSFUL SINCE WE'VE BEEN DOING IT ALL THIS TIME." 
ignores the possibility that there may be valid reasons for a traditional 
schedule...it may work....  The process should be to question the 
paradigms...definitely....and prove them true.  If and only if they cannot 
be proven true, change them; but know why, what the objectives are, what 
the measurements will be, how to gather the data and report the truth of 
the data.

########################################
Harry Nimon Phone: 518-6582: Pager: 763-0351# 
Internet: HNimon@netgate.compaq.com            #     
########################################

====================================================================

Models/Prevette

Steven_S_Prevette@RL.gov

Wed, 18 Sep 1996 07:26:34 -0700

--IMA.Boundary.870750348
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: cc:Mail note part

     To build on the discussion of models (most recently Myers-Briggs and 
     IQ test results), I would like to reinforce Bill Cooper's comment that 
     the "map is not the territory".
     
     Personnally, I found taking the MBTI (which I have done formally 
     twice) to be enlightening.  I am an ISTJ (and proud of it -> Bill).  
     There are some interesting predictive aspects of the 16 combinations 
     of results which have helped me to realize aspects of myself, and 
     aspects of why interactions fail (arguments occur) due to 
     communicating on two separate planes.  However, there are limits.  
     Such as (informal) testing seems to indicate that my wife is ISTJ.  
     Now the literature I have read has said that a marriage between two 
     ISTJ's is doomed to boredom and failure.  Now I will admit we go to 
     bed by 10 PM (boring!), but I am certainly not filing for divorce on 
     the grounds that we have incompatible MBTI test results.
     
     As long as the model is used in a predictive, but not limiting, manner 
     there can be benefits.  The Statistical Process Control method is also 
     a predictive model.  But do not be limited by the prediction.  For 
     example, the SPC model of an "in control" process states that future 
     process results will fall between the control limits.  However, I can 
     (and should) be knowledgeable of the fact that I can change the 
     process and get different results (but that it does require a process 
     change to accomplish this).
     
     We can also become over-enamored with models, in making ever more 
     sophisticated models which may accurately predict results, but not 
     give us insight into how to change the process for the better.  I 
     assume that is the source of the complaints about "classical" 
     statisticians.
     
     - Steve Prevette
       ISTJ
--IMA.Boundary.870750348--

======================================================================

Gallery Furniture/Crow

James Robert Crow

Wed, 18 Sep 96 09:21:40 EDT

On Monday I received a call for a large consulting company.  This person is
doing some work in the automobile industry, specifically attempting to get
dealers to move away from commission pay, and to a fixed price method of
selling their product.  One of the questions was, "Do you know of a retail
operation that has done this successfully?"  Gallery Furniture in Houston
Texas immediately came to mind.  This person was familuar with Gallery, but
wondered if Gallary had stayed with the non-commissioned sales process or if
they had gone back to commissioned sales.

The reason for the question was that some car dealerships have moved to
non-commissioned sales for a period of time, but had eventually returned to
a commissioned based process.  She noted that even in some Saturn
dealerships this was true.

Just to refresh your memory, or make some of you aware of Gallery Furniture.
The owner was concerned with his sales closings.  They were runing at about
43%, and throught various incentives he had been trying to get them to
increase for some time.  He attended a Deming 4 day seminar, decided he
hadn't learned enough the first time, attended a second and then a third,
before he began to understand enough to see what he had to do to apply
Demings' teachings to his business.

Gallery operated with a series of quotas.  You had a daily, and weekly
quota.  If your sales were not at a sufficient level by the end of the work
day on Thursday you could not work on the weekend.  The theory being that
you only wanted your best people there for the weekend traffic.

The first thing he did was do away with the quota's.  Sales closing went up.
The next thing he did was put the sales force on salary and establish a
profit sharing policy in which all employees participated.  Sales closing
continued to climb, and at the time of the study stood at around 50%.

Gallery realized additional benefits from the change.  Turnover which had
been 15 to 20 people a month in a sales force of 80 dropped to almost zero.
Payroll, which had required 9 hours to do could now be completed in one.
Sales people could now work together to make sales, rather than compete with
each other.  Some even rode the delivery trucks to be come more familuar
with other aspects of the company.  The owners found that the atmosphere was
much improved by people working together rather than competing with each other.

I believe you have some good examples of how systems drive behavior in this
example, and how this produced sub-optimization.  By changing the system
people could cooperate with each other, trust levels grow, and the result
was optimization of the system.

I was also curious so I called Gallery Furniture.  I talked with a lady who
had been with the store for 10 years, so she was there prior to them going
off commission.  Gallery is still using a salary based system to compensate
their sales force.  It was this lady's opinion that there was no way they
could go back to the old system.  Gallery has flourished under the new
system.  Sales volume has grown, inventory turns have increased.  Customers
like shopping at Gallery, knowing that they do not have the pressure of
dealing with a commissioned sales force.  Turnover is almost non existent.
Gallery now has group insurance coverage for all employees.  This was
impossible under the old system because of the turnover.  They also have a
profit sharing system that is an equal dollar amount and is paid quarterly.
The person I talked with was very enthusiastic and seemed to enjoy her work.
Could it be that the system is enabling her to experience joy in work.

Do any of you know of other examples of companies that have switched from
commission pay for the sales force, or have moved from pay for performance
to pay based on market conditions?  Have they established a profit sharing
method, and if so how is it set up?

I know of a hospital that has moved from pay for performance.  Their profit
sharing is an equal dollar amount paid to all employees.

A local manufacturing company has moved from pay for performance.  Their
profit sharing is a per cent of pay with everyone getting a equal percentage.

Robert Crow,            The Crow Group
jr1crow@mindspring.com, Continual Improvement
Voice (770) 461-1177,   Optimization of the System
FAX   (770) 461-1177,   Focusing Organizational Energy
250 Thornton Drive,	Motivating Work Environments
Fayetteville, GA 30214

======================================================================

Re: TQM applications within Law Enforcement Organizations/Beedon

Julie Beedon

Wed, 18 Sep 1996 11:46:29

 

>Can anyone recommed books that directly address the implementation
>of TQM in a public sector organization?

Martin Raff and I contributed a chapter to Managing Change in the
New Public Sector, edited by Roger Lovell published by Longmans in
conjunction with the Civil Service College - I don't have the ISBN
on me (working in New Orleans)  The book covered a range of change
issues including a chapter by David Shaw on Deming and Quality
related to the public sector and our story of it's application to
the UK Employment Service....  

===================================================================

Re: TQM applications within Law Enforcement Organizations/Woods

John Woods

Thu, 19 Sep 1996 05:53:27 -0500

Steve Delph wrote:

>I have read many management books by different authors; Tom
>Peters, Deming, Peter Drucker, and others.  All these books seem to 
>discuss how the new styles of management can and do affect the
>profits and financial well being of the company.  In a public
>sector agency, such as a Sheriff's Office, there is no profit
>motive because we operate as a monopoly, free from economic competiton.
>
>My question is, what is the motive for public sector agencies 
>to adapt and implement these new management philosophoes?

The main reason for implementing total quality management is that it is a
more efficient and effective way to get your agency/department to operate.
TQM is not really a new management philosophy.  It is a set of tools and
techniques that takes into account that all organizations, be they
businesses, churches, hospitals, schools, or government agencies are systems
that take inputs, transform these in some way to deliver outputs that are of
value to others, willing to pay for them.  Traditional management approaches
are not an efficient way to manage systems.  

You don't really need to study TQM to improve how you manage the system that
is the sheriff's department.  You could just start from the assumption that
it is a system and then try to logically work out what the best methods
would be to make that system's processes operate as well as possible.  When
you finished, what you have come up with will be a set of activities and
perspectives very similar to those suggested by TQM.  Therefore, since these
activities have all been worked out for you (and called TQM), it simply
makes sense to adopt them.  

>My thinking is that the only pressure or motivation to change
>would be to keep your elected position or would be to receive
>increased funding.  Is this a proper direction of thought?

Perhaps this approach will help you keep an elected position or receive
increased funding.  However, if that is your motivation for implementing
TQM, it won't work because you will not have changed your perspective on why
these methods will work.  The fact is that TQM will help you do more with
less because they will help you eliminate waste and rework.  In other words,
the reason to implement TQM is that it's a more realistic and successful
approach to getting the most from your resources--people, material, time--to
deliver the outputs of your system.  And it provides a proven method for
continuously improving your performance.  Do you want to continue being
inefficient or would you prefer to adopt an approach that will (1) make your
processes more efficient, (2) make work more interesting for your employees,
and (3) deliver higher value outputs for your customers.  If the latter is
your goal, then TQM makes sense.  

>Can anyone recommed books that directly address the implementation
>of TQM in a public sector organization?

Recommended book that's short, easy to read, and inexpensive: QualiTrends: 7
Quality Secrets that Will Change Your Life by John A. Woods and James W.
Cortada (McGraw-Hill, 1996).  

Also, I suggest you get in touch with the Madison, Wisconsin police
department, which has been implementing TQM for several years.  

John Woods
jwoods@execpc.com

===============================================================

re: Gallery Furniture/Nimon

"harry nimon"

Thu, 19 Sep 96 7:38:23 CDT

What Robert says about Gallery is absolutely true.  They are active members 
in the Greater Houston Deming Alliance Group here in Houston.  A story that 
Max tells about WED is that he continued to send his people to the 
seminars.  Deming noted the "Gallery Saves You Money" T-shirts on the 
attendees and despared that he wasn't getting his message across because 
the "Gallery People" kept coming back.  In reality, Max was sending as many 
of his people as he could.

He has also placed the idea of pushing quality development into the 
community by backing a work program for disadvantaged youth.  Any youth 
from a disadvantaged area who wants a job gets on...as long as their grades 
remain "B" or better.  They show the report cards to their supervisor each 
term.  If the grades drop, the people of Gallery tutor them to bring them 
up...not simply fire them.  Max embodies the principles of Deming so 
completely, that he even placed his life at risk to enter a crack-house 
here to rescue one young employee's mother and get her into detox.  He AND 
his business are a case study that should be a Harvard Business School 
requirement.

########################################
Harry Nimon@Services@Ops Hou                      # 
Mail 130109; Phone: 518-6582: Pager: 763-0351# 
Internet: HNimon@netgate.compaq.com            #     
########################################
======================================================================

The larger system and education/

James Robert Crow

Thu, 19 Sep 96 09:12:16 EDT

I agree with Newman's comments regarding the larger system's impact on the
educational process.  It seems that I remember reading somewhere that to get
better results you need better input into the system.  In other words all
students do not enter the system with equal abilities.  Some of this is
cultural, econimic, genetic etc.  Students from more affuluent, better
educated neighborhoods enter the system better prepared and with higher
expectations of success.

In pursuing this the schood district determined that some students entered
the system with a handicap that preceeded their birth.  Their mothers could
not afford pre-natal care, and they were born with a low birth weight.  Thus
the school district determined that if they wanted to improve the quality of
the product entering the system they would have to make it possible for
expectant mothers to have proper care and nourishment during their
pregnancy.  How would you get this into the school budget?

Beyond this our current life style in the United States puts tremendous
stress on families which translates to stress for the student.  Students
whose parents are not home because of the necessity of earning a living do
not receive the supervision needed to apply themselves to their studies.
Students whose parents are experiencing problems in their relationships are
placed under additional stress.  Loss of jobs by one or both parents is also
a source of stress for the student.

Add to this the fact that some neighborhoods are not to far from what would
resemble a war zone, with bullets flying as rival gangs fight for territory.
Think about this.  How would you be able to concentrate on your studies
knowing that on the way home this afternoon you will have to pass through
several rival gangs territory, that gun fights are a frequent occurance, and
that you may be approached by several drug pushers.  I don't know about you
but that would affect my ability to concentrate.

We are also faced with the situation that the nations schools are bursting
at the seams, but we are unwilling to invest the necessary money to build
the schools, hire the teachers to handle the additional student load.  The
result is predictable, and we will pay the price for it long term with
students who drop out, or graduate and are functionally illiterate.  There
was a short piece on a news program on New York City public schools which
are apparently terribly overcrowded.  One shot was of a teacher attempting
to teach English on a stair way, while another had 43 youngsters in a class.
This kind of situation cannot produce outstanding results.

The same program brought in the larger political system with the mayor
blaming the school administration, and the administration trying to shift
the blame to another source.  No one, it seems was taking a realistic look
at the situation and what could be done to upgrade the educational system to
guarantee the students the quality of education they deserve and that we as
the larger society need.

Robert Crow,            The Crow Group
jr1crow@mindspring.com, Continual Improvement
Voice (770) 461-1177,   Optimization of the System
FAX   (770) 461-1177,   Focusing Organizational Energy
250 Thornton Drive,	Motivating Work Environments
Fayetteville, GA 30214

===================================================================

Re: Learning fixed, time variable/Harris

Thomas Harris

19 Sep 96 09:55:00 CDT

From: Tom Harris
Colston Sanger asks, "What would the school year look like if it was
structured according to the learning cycle?"

Standard answer--it depends upon what is to be learned by the students.
Certainly there is room for athletics, band/orchestra and other
"extra-curricular" activities.Input from the community of customers
may, to a large extent, supply the curriculum, competencies,
outcomes, or whatever the current buzzword is for what it is that
the students are to learn.  If the curricula are built around the
wants, needs, and desires of the community they serve, then it
becomes much easier to identify whether or not the school is
serving the purpose for which it was intended.  If not, change the
system by which the school operates.  It's the system that's at
the heart of the matter--not the teachers or students.

Comments?

Tom Harris

Tom Harris, Ph. D., Prof. Bus. Mgt.
St. Philip's College
1801 M. L. King Blvd.
San Antonio, TX 78231
Voice 210-531-3494
"Continual improvement involving everyone"
...Imai

=====================================================================

Commission Sales/Taurman

ILX

Thu, 19 Sep 1996 08:58:47 -0500 (CDT)

At 09:21 AM 9/18/96 EDT, you wrote:
>On Monday I received a call for a large consulting company.  This person is
>doing some work in the automobile industry, specifically attempting to get
>dealers to move away from commission pay, and to a fixed price method of
>selling their product.  One of the questions was, "Do you know of a retail
>operation that has done this successfully?" 

RESPONSE  to ROBERT CROW

Best Buy, an electronics store in the Midwest,  has switched from commission
to a team selling approach. I only see it as a customer but it is a much
nicer store to shop in now that the commissions are removed. 

Service is better and it is more pleasant to shop there. 

Eugene Taurman
interLinx
ilx@execpc.com
http://www.execpc.com/~ilx

=======================================================

Re: SPC & culture change/Tribus

"Myron. Tribus" <104055.2663@compuserve.com>

19 Sep 96 11:03:44 EDT

One of the staff members of the Kaizen center (I forget which) observed that the
biggest barrier to executives changing their behaviour is the fear of being seen
to act outside the norms of their peers.

I know this is true because as a Sr. VP in the Xerox Corporation,  using some of
the ideas which I now credit to Deming (but did not know about then),  I was
told,  bluntly, that I was not a manager.   After I resigned I received a letter
signed by about a dozen of my former subordinates asking if I would return.  

That experience helped me to appreciate Dr. Deming's message when I encountered
him six years later.

Myron Tribus,  350 Britto Terrace,  Fremont, CA 94539
Ph:510 651 3641  Fax: 510 656 9875
There is no such thing as an immaculate perception
What you see depends on what you thought before you looked

=============================================================================

Re: Variation in education/Tribus

"Myron. Tribus" <104055.2663@compuserve.com>

19 Sep 96 11:03:48 EDT

Phil Monroe wrote:

>Is your theory that our country is better 
>served  by greater variation, lower average, and the gifted 
>given a track to fully develop during the education years, or
>would we be better off with a higher overall average, less
>people on the low end because of extra learning help, and yes
>a few less at the very high end.

On what basis is it postulated that there would be 'a few less at the very high
end' if the 'high end' spent time helping the others?

Myron Tribus,  350 Britto Terrace,  Fremont, CA 94539
Ph:510 651 3641  Fax: 510 656 9875
There is no such thing as an immaculate perception
What you see depends on what you thought before you looked

========================================================

Outcome Based Education/Harris

Thomas Harris

19 Sep 96 10:11:37 CDT

From: Tom Harris

Phol Monroe's last statement, "With education we will have to choose
whether we want the variation to be in learning achieved, or in
teaching" is the first iteration I've seen that identifies that
teaching and learning are NOT the same thing.  THANK YOU, PHIL!!!

Now if we could only get the other 99.99 percent of the people in
education to believe that, we might be able to change some
things.

Tom Harris

Tom Harris, Ph. D., Prof. Bus. Mgt.
St. Philip's College
1801 M. L. King Blvd.
San Antonio, TX 78231
Voice 210-531-3494
"Continual improvement involving everyone"
...Imai

==================================================================

Re:Pay for performance/Taurman

ILX

Thu, 19 Sep 1996 09:46:52 -0500 (CDT)

At 09:21 AM 9/18/96 EDT, you wrote:
>
>I believe you have some good examples of how systems drive behavior in this
>example, and how this produced sub-optimization.  By changing the system
>people could cooperate with each other, trust levels grow, and the result
>was optimization of the system.
>
>
>Do any of you know of other examples of companies that have switched from
>commission pay for the sales force, or have moved from pay for performance
>to pay based on market conditions?  Have they established a profit sharing
>method, and if so how is it set up?

RESPONSE

There are thousands but I only know a few first hand.

        Greene Manufactuing Co.
        Brenlin Group built a $500,000,000 business based on 33% for the
employees ,         33% for the owners and 30% for reinvestment
        Worthington Steel used a similar formula
        Avis over 25 years ago 

        Serigraph is changing now

It works well. But there are other factors in management style that can keep
it from taking hold to aid the building of team work.

Eugene Taurman
interLinx
ilx@execpc.com
http://www.execpc.com/~ilx

==================================================================

AUTO DEALERS SALES COMMISSION/Taurman

ILX

Thu, 19 Sep 1996 09:46:57 -0500 (CDT)

A similar subject is pay for car dealers service technicians.

Most car dealers used to pay technicians a fixed fee for the job.  If he
finished early he made more, if he took longer he made less. If the repair
job comes back the tech fixed it on his own time. That my sound ok but it is
terrible. It destroyed any possibility of the tech learning form mistakes. 

When a car came back the only question in his mind was who will pay. The
only place to turn was to the supplier. Most of the time the supplier is not
the problem but that made no difference, if the supplier did not pay then
the tech did not buy there again. Many dealers allow their service
technicians to pick their suppliers when it is a non warranty repair.

This practice guaranteed no analysis of the real problems and prevented
learning. It meant the technicians swap suppliers weekly showing preference
for those that paid They confused this rollover with standing behind the
product.  This experience with dealers made me wary of using them to service
any problem other than warranty where the factory stood behind the repair. 

Many dealers have changed since then but it is a wonderful place to study
behavior based on pay systems and broad the consequences are. Those pay
systems assumed the man needed the incentive to keep working. A
contradiction to Deming concepts of management.

Before have a car repaired determine how they pay.

An independent shop I discovered in Rockford Ill spent 1 hour every
Wednesday morning discussion how to make the hop run better. They also
required the technicians to read and share their new found knowledge. They
had a repair bay with balconies over looking it so they could share and
demonstrate techniques and solutions. Few if any dealers have such a
training oriented philosophy.  


This behavior applies to the impact on behavior of annul reviews. When money
for the individual is on the line then there can be little discussion of
performance and real exchange of information.

Eugene Taurman
interLinx
ilx@execpc.com
http://www.execpc.com/~ilx

===========================================================================

Re: MBTI/Taylor

Morris Taylor

Thu, 19 Sep 1996 18:26:49 +0100

Before anyone buys into psychometric testing and its application in business
there are several books worth considering

'The Mismeasure of Man' by Stephen Jay Gould
'Emotional Intelligence' by Daniel Goleman


Sincere Regards
 	
Morris Taylor 

Aberdeen Hypnotherapy Centre
at
MOTIVATION TECHNOLOGY
One Belgrave Terrace	
ABERDEEN				
UK
AB25 2NR

+44 (0)1224 633 222 	(Voice)
+44 (0)1224 646 999 	(Fax)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: CEO"S learning SPC /Cooper

BCoop1116@aol.com

Thu, 19 Sep 1996 14:54:42 -0400

Taurman wrote the CEO Must change.  I totally agree with that statement.  The
one that I disagree with is the statement that suggests before I or other
members of the organization can adopt a reasonable course of action the CEO
must change.  I like Mr. Taurman was a senior executive and all I really
learned was that to be in charge means to try to apply resources in a way
that produces a product or service and thereby profit and jobs.  I learned
that in most cases I did not know the processes or the way that my people did
business.  I tried not to be above the "level of detail" but I like Mr.
Taurman had many fish to fry.  I did use SPC and information such as control
charts to help me better understand their processes.  I think others in the
management team need to be a energy source for learning as well as the CEO.  

Mental ownership of any form is bad for any of us.  I do not like it when I
hear people say that in order for me to make progress or act in a way that is
condusive to success my boss must act that way also.  When I was teaching
small business development I tried to study the traits of successful small
business people.  The only common thing that I found in my reading was that
almost to a person they had an "internal locus of control"..  To often we
allow ouselves and others to not take action or initiative because of what
someone else is doing or not doing and thereby demonstrate an "external locus
of control".  I think all of us own change in an organization.  One person
did not create the organizatonal culture and one person want change it to
some new form.   

I think it is great when the CEO is trained and understands the  strategies
outlined in DR. Demings teachings.  I however know that CEO's come and go but
people and processes remains unless someone or somebody provides the energy
to change them.  The CEO has power but not all of the power.  As the
President finds out frequently we all work for somebody and absolute power
does not exist.  If absolute power does not exist to do bad why do we believe
that it exists to do good.  I think we put to much credence in this CEO
"pedestal" and forget that there are a bunch of other folks who have
responsibilites too.  I don't ever want to think that we are just sitting
around waiting for the CEO to provide a vision.  I don't think Dr. Deming was
wrong when he said "the power of middle management has ever been tested".  We
say these folks are our biggest obstacle yet they were our best "workers"
before we promoted them.  What happened???   

Maybe we ought to be saying in a truly empowered organization that continuous
improvement of product, processes and services is the only job left for them
to do.  If middle mangement is not willing to accept this task then they will
continue to disappear as a class because they have no legitimate role left.
 Lets put some focus on the management team in the middle as well as the CEO.
 It really is a team and one guy or gal can not do it with out their "energy"
 

Bill Cooper  

 
=======================================================================

Re: TQM applications within Law Enforcement Organizations/Birch

John Birch <100106.631@CompuServe.COM>

19 Sep 96 17:06:13 EDT

I am a serving police officer in the city of Birmingham, England.

All of Demings philosophies and teachings have a direct and pertinent bearing on
the work of all organisations, including those within the public or voluntary
sectors.

The public and private sectors all have customers for their service. In the case
of the police the categories of customer are many and it may be worth your while
considering who those are. The following are some suggestions:

Tax and ratepayers
Local government
National government
Societies vulnerable people
Anyone who calls for your service. etc. etc. etc.

Whilst these people presumably do not pay for your service on delivery, they
have nonetheless paid (through taxes) for your services. It is fair to assume
therefore, that your organisation has a duty to provide the best (most efficient
and effective) service it possibly can for these customers.

I find it useful to substitute the term PROFIT (a suitable high level aim for a
private company with shareholders) with the term VALUE FOR MONEY, to represent
that which your organisation seeks to give to its customers as a high level aim.

What about the motivation to provide this service when your organisation, like
mine, is in a comfortable monopoly position? There is a wealth of evidence to
show that most workers are intrinsically motivated to come to work to do a good
job. If your experience suggests they are not, perhaps it is because their
managers have failed to remove the obstacles that prevent them doing so.

Sorry, I can think of no titles specifically aimed at this subject in the area
of law enforcement. As another professional in the same 'buiness' I am, however
happy to answer any other queries you may have if I can.


John  Birch
Birmingham, England.
100106.631@compuserve.com

========================================================================

Application of MBTI/Vickerstaff

vickers@ozramp.net.au (John Vickerstaff)

Fri, 20 Sep 1996 12:55:15 +1000

>I also have some concerns regarding the use of the MBTI as a management
>tool.  My concerns have to do basically with the potential of placing a
>person in a box and ascribing behavior to that person because of the results
>of the test.  Once we are able to do this we can ignore that person in the
>future.  We rob them of their humanity.  This could be simular to ascribing
>behavior to a person because of their skin color, national orgin, etc.
>
>A possible use of a MBTI would be in putting together management teams, so
that you >have a balance.  While the MBTI would not be the only criteria it
could be one of the >tools.

I have been reading with interest all the different thoughts surrounding the
use of MBTI. 
I would like to offer my perception of the link betweem MBTI & Deming. The
key link that I see between these terms is that both are very helpful when
used correctly. Just as Deming's philosophy has been disected & distorted by
some, taking the parts they like or misinterpreting others, so I think, has
MBTI. 

I am by no means an expert in the MBTI field, however, I do have a personal
experience to share. I have performed the MBTI test twice now, with a couple
of years in between. On both occasions while their was natural variation in
my scores, the type came out the same (ISTJ). On the second occasion of
using this model, I learnt something very valuable about myself. I was
fortunate enough to have a very skilled person conduct the session for our
group. During discussions, I was able to relate how my introverted type
nature had impacted on my effectiveness recently. 

While working with a colleague on a project, I had outwardly agreed with his
suggestion while inwardly not being fully committed. This led to problems
some time later when I had had enough time to fully reflect on my thoughts.
As I reflected further, this was not uncommon behaviour for me, thus I had
identified a personal practice issue to work on to improve my personal
effectiveness. 

This example highlights the benefits of something like the MBTI. However, as
I have seen in this discussion group, some people begin to misuse it by
making assumptions or forming opinions of others based on their type. We all
know, that difference is something to be valued and utilized for best results. 

The real value of MBTI comes about through using it as one piece of data,
which may mean nothing alone. However, when put together with other
collaborative data one may be able to form a picture and make some sense of it. 

Just as control charts may be dangerous in the hands of someone with little
understanding of variation, MBTI can be dangerous in the hands of someone
with a little knowledge. 

John Vickerstaff.
  
==================================================================

Re: TQM applications within Law Enforcement Organizations

WDSG@aol.com

Thu, 19 Sep 1996 23:08:55 -0400

> ...at times, unsure how this management philosophy fits in 
> a public sector organization.
 
> I have read many management books by different authors; Tom
> Peters, Deming, Peter Drucker, and others.  All these books seem to 
> discuss how the new styles of management can and do affect the
> profits and financial well being of the company.  In a public
> sector agency, such as a Sheriff's Office, there is no profit
> motive because we operate as a monopoly, free from economic competiton.
 
> My question is, what is the motive for public sector agencies 
> to adapt and implement these new management philosophoes?
> My thinking is that the only pressure or motivation to change
> would be to keep your elected position or would be to receive
> increased funding.  Is this a proper direction of thought?

I think the main motivation is to do the job your agency is tasked with as
well as possible.  This may have side benefits of making it more fun to work,
increased funding, decreased time spent explaining why we didn't do what was
expected, keeping jobs (my federal government agency has lost over a third of
our workforce in the past 3 years)... 
 
> Can anyone recommed books that directly address the implementation
> of TQM in a public sector organization?
 
Look below for information on the Public Sector Continuous Improvement Site
and the Public Sector Network (PSN).  At the Public Sector Continuous
Improvement Site we have a book list include an excellent book on the City of
Madison, Wisconsin police department's Quality efforts.  Past issues of the
PSN newsletter include a number of articles on the criminal justice system
(see below for WWW access info).

I also recommend Brian Joiner's Fourth Generation Management.  It is not
focused on the public sector but I think you can see how to use the ideas in
the public sector.

> Steve Delph
> Deputy Sheriff, Polk County Sheriff's Office Bartow, FL. 

I would like to introduce two sources of Public Sector Quality Improvement I
am involved with:  the Public Sector Continuous Improvement Site and the
Public Sector Network.  

The Public Sector Continuous Improvement Site aims to support individuals
working with continuous improvement in the public sector.  Currently you can
access suggested reading material, a library of documents available online,
organizations of interest and a guide to online resources.  The site will
continually grow and improve.  Access via www:
    http://deming.eng.clemson.edu/pub/psci/  

In 1987, the Public Sector Quality Improvement Network was formed by
practitioners in the State, Local and Federal government.  In 1992, we joined
with ASQC and became the ASQC Public Sector Network.  Our Mission: We are an
international network of people who exchange information and learning to help
ourselves and others to improve the quality of government systems. 

     PSN executive council members:
Rebecca Meyers     Chair         NY State
Barry Crook        Past Chair    Multnomah County  OR
Kim Peterson       Chair Elect   City of Austin, TX
Carolyn Farquhar   Secretary     Conference Board of Canada

We now have over 1,800 PSN members working in Local, State and Federal
governments internationally.  I think it is a valuable resource and it costs
nothing to join so you have little to lose.  You can call ASQC at (800)
248-1946 and tell them you want to join the Public Sector Network.  Or write
asqc@asqc.org (for the subject type: Public Sector Network) and say you want
to join the PSN--include: your name, snail mail address, organization,
e-mail, phone, fax (and home phone if you want).  We will send you some more
information and our Quarterly newsletter.

You can request a copy of our directory to help networking among our members.
 We also have PSN info packets, containing timely articles on the following
topics:

State Government     150 pages   1995    H0903  $19.00 ($13.00 for ASQC
members)
Local Government    250 pages   1995    H0904  $21.00 ($15.00)
Federal Government  100 pages   1995    H0905  $19.00 ($13.00)

You can access text files of our past newsletters and other PSN info via
Clemson University:  
      http://deming.eng.clemson.edu/pub/psci/psn/psnnews.html    

***************************************************
* John Hunter
* asqcpsn@aol.com
* Cyberia Chair, ASQC Public Sector Network
* Webmaster, Public Sector Continuous Improvement Site  
* http://pages.prodigy.com/john/hunter.html
***************************************************

==============================================================================

Re: Quality defined by the system/Nimon

"harry nimon"

Fri, 20 Sep 96 8:27:01 CDT

Anton wrote:
>pride of workmanship - goes some way to defining quality and the barriers 
we put in place of people having this makes quality suffer

*  Both pride and shame are useful tools in the search for quality.  Each 
is an indicator of morale and attitude within the worker's environment.  I 
would liken them to the symptoms of an illness. Shame is like a temperature 
that indicates something is wrong and needs to be examined. Pride is an 
indication of wellness, but can also indicate that the worker is unaware of 
problems when statistical measures show that the pride may be 
inappropriate.  Again, the system needs to be examined.

>How can the customer know.....

* We are both customers.  I know when I am not satisfied in a product and 
why.  I may not be able to predict what is needed in future products until 
I try them, but I definitely know what I do and do not like in current 
products.

>if we make the exchange of money and customers the defining factor, what 
happens to the internal exchanges in a system and how is quality deifned in 
those?

* Through close and continuous exchanges of information between all levels. 
 Permitting the bias of one level to control the information being passed 
down is to ignore the importance of interactivity.  How many times have you 
heard, "If only I had known that, I wouldn't have .....[fill in the blank]" 
 What one level believes is unimportant may be vital at another.  

It remains that, as Deming stated, "It is a mistake to suppose that 
efficient production of product and service can with certainty keep an 
organization solvent and ahead of competition.  It is possible and in fact 
fairly easy for an organization to go downhill and out of business making 
the wrong procudt or offering the wrong type of service, even though 
everyone in the organization performs with devotion, employing statistical 
methods and every other aid that can boost efficiency."

The customer that provides money for good or service is the ultimate judge 
of quality.  Ever read "Dilbert?"

>Deming talked about customer satisfaction - did he ever say quality was 
defined by the customer?

* I believe the above quote states that fairly plainly....

>"...quality is a multi-faceted complex sometimes paradoxical thing - how 
could one stakeholder in a system define it?"

* Have you ever refused to purchase something because of its lack of 
quality or usefulness?  Without your purchase, the product remains 
inventory...with no value whatsoever.

>Are we defining customers as those who *do* buy or those who *could* buy?

* Both....but the definition of their acceptance of your quality is whether 
or not they buy....

>...how does delighting the customer fit into this framework....

* Again, examine your own experiences.  I have often paid more for a 
product at one place than another simply because the service was better and 
I was treated the way I felt I should be.  I have also walked out of places 
because they were doing me a favor by deciding I could be serviced.


########################################
Harry Nimon@Services@Ops Hou                      # 
Mail 130109; Phone: 518-6582: Pager: 763-0351# 
Internet: HNimon@netgate.compaq.com            #     
########################################

==============================================================================

Deming Questions # 27/Gogue

gogue@cri.ensmp.fr (GOGUE J.M. Societe MAST 39 50 99 67)

Sun, 22 Sep 96 09:40:23 +0200

--------------------------  DEMING QUESTIONS  -------------------------- 

A weekly paper including a set of questions copied in the Deming book 
OUT OF THE CRISIS   Chapter 5.  Questions to Help Managers.
By Jean-Marie Gogue

-----

27-1.   (No 53 in the Book) - Numerical goals for production

Are you guilty of setting numerical goals on the factory floor for 
production?

COMMENTS
This question should address not only the plant managers of manufacturing 
companies but also everybody in industry, services, trade, governement and 
education. Numerical goals result in much distress and frustration. Deming 
gives striking examples of the damaging effects of numerical goals in the 
chapter 2 of The New Economics: *Heavy Losses*. 

-----

27-2.   (No 54 in the Book) - Understanding the statistician's job

a)    If you have a competent statistician in your company, are you making 
       maximum use of his knowledge and ability? 

b)    Is he teaching statistical thinking to your management, engineers, 
       chemists, physicists, production workers, foremen, supervisors, 
       purchasing agents, in your department of commercial research and 
       design of future product? 

c)    Do you send him to statistical meetings? 

d)     Is he working throughout your company to find problems and to find 
       causes and results of corrective action? Is he working on all your 
       problems of design, quality, procurement, specifications, testing 
       of instruments? 

e)    Does he have authority and responsibility to look anywhere in the 
       company for problems, and to work on them? If not, why not? 
       (Ch. 16.)

COMMENTS
How can you judge somebody is a *competent statistician* when you are 
not a statistician ?  There are charlatans everywhere. The only way is to 
rely on the community of competent statisticians. The W. Edwards Deming 
Institute is the most valuable source of information in this respect.

-----

Jean-Marie Gogue
President
The French Deming Association
Versailles   France
gogue@ensmp.fr

=====================================================================

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